Rules      FAQ       Register        Login
It is currently November 21st, 2017, 1:31 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: November 13th, 2017, 8:59 pm 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
User avatar

Joined: 02 January 2007
Posts: 2619
Location: The Lakeshore of Annúminas
Country: Gondor (xg)

Offline
Since this is happening, I think it’s time for a thread of its own. Middle Earth is coming. I suspect the episodes will be based on the Appendices, but who knows. All I ask is it is done well, and that Peter Jackson et al has nothing to do with it. Let the speculation and hatred begin! :lol:

_________________
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Dunedain Ranger of the North
Annalist, Physician, & Historian
of The Black Company of the Dúnedain,
The Free Company of Arnor


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: November 14th, 2017, 2:37 pm 
Elf
Elf
User avatar

Joined: 05 March 2017
Posts: 1195
Location: I've been where Aragorn hasn't, but I now live in a cross between Hobbiton and Rivendell.
Country: Germany (de)
Gender: Male

Offline
To quote Strider talking to the Hobbits at the Prancing Pony, “You fear them, but you do not fear them enough.” With all his many faults in making the LoTR, PJ at least knew the book (and had Sirs Christopher Lee and Ian McKellen around to harrumph at him if necessary). As has been pointed out elsewhere, the appendices leave even more wiggle room (in the sense that blue whales “wiggle” their tails occasionally) for wild and wooly imaginations. How high is the probability that the Amazon suits have read Sil, UT and HoME, where some information is to be found to flesh out parts of the annals?

Anyway, since there’s not a snowball’s chance in Angband that I will ever subscribe to any sort of ppv TV, you’ll have to tell me what they will have been up to (and I will only be able to double-check your claims if they ever decide to release the stuff on DVD).

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: November 15th, 2017, 12:49 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 03 June 2005
Posts: 4075
Location: In my dreams
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Female

Offline
I thought they were going to start with LotR, and then spin-off the appendices and the Sil if it was successful enough.

Before Game of Thrones no one could imagine that a TV series could capture the scope of LotR, but now I think there's a potential that it could cover it even better than a movie can, with a lot of detail and so on. I heard Amazon was looking for their own "House of Cards" or "Game of Thrones," too... that is to say, a piece of epic, must-watch television, so they might go out of their way to cater to the hard-core Tolkienites (like us! :bye2:).

Also I was thinking, I came to LotR and Tolkien through PJ's movies, which are wonderful, but they always informed the way I imagine the books and I never really got the chance to form my own images. It would be healthy for me to see another interpretation. If, for example, they filmed it in England instead of New Zealand, it might actually be more in line with Tolkien's vision, since he based it all on Anglo and Nordic folklore. (I would be feel bad for New Zealand, though. LotR has been so good to them and their economy!)

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: November 15th, 2017, 5:06 pm 
Warden of the Knight
Warden of the Knight
User avatar

Joined: 04 November 2005
Posts: 18416
Location: In a pudle on Naboo with dragon kind and ents and Jedi and wolves living in the Last Homely House!
Gender: Male

Offline
Taurquende, I hope beyond hope that they will do just that. Go that extra mile to satisfy the hard core Tolkienites. Of they do it could be amazing!

Gandolorin had a good point, however. The chances that the Amazon suits have read the books is slim. Let's hope they study the material and consult experts.

I did read that they are working closely with the Tolkien Estate as well as New Line Cinema. So hopefully that boeds well. It could be Christopher will keep them true to his father's original vision.

EDIT:

Ok... Never mind all that above about them keeping to the vision.... Just read that Christopher Tolkien has resigned as head of the Tolkien Estate. O_@

_________________
Image

Image

Visit The Varsian Kingdom!


Top
 Profile       WWW     YIM        
 
 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: November 16th, 2017, 12:09 am 
Elf
Elf
User avatar

Joined: 05 March 2017
Posts: 1195
Location: I've been where Aragorn hasn't, but I now live in a cross between Hobbiton and Rivendell.
Country: Germany (de)
Gender: Male

Offline
Taurquende wrote:
... If, for example, they filmed it in England instead of New Zealand, it might actually be more in line with Tolkien's vision, ...

The England of Middle-earth was the Shire. The Misty Mountains (the Alps), Rohan, Gondor, the Anduin, Mirkwood ... were other parts of Europe, with JRRT himself (in a letter?) placing Gondor, must mean MinasTirith of the Third Age - or Osgiliath, more properly? - at about the latitude of Rome. And even for just the Shire, I can very well imagine that such a countryside might be very hard to find in present-day England. Just think of the fact that the village (hamlet?) of Sarehole of JRRT's fond memories of his childhood has by now been engulfed by the urban moloch of Birmingham.

So for me an interesting question is where are they going to shoot this? All in studios with green-screens? If not, where for the outside stuff?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: November 16th, 2017, 10:31 pm 
Istari
Istari
User avatar

Joined: 21 November 2014
Posts: 2903
Location: Angband & Mordor
Country: Canada (ca)
Gender: Female

Offline
New Zealand???

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: November 17th, 2017, 5:02 pm 
Elf
Elf
User avatar

Joined: 05 March 2017
Posts: 1195
Location: I've been where Aragorn hasn't, but I now live in a cross between Hobbiton and Rivendell.
Country: Germany (de)
Gender: Male

Offline
Why not New Zealand? In one sense, they know (I have a LoTR location guidebook) where stuff was shot for the films, which should cut down scouting. Now PJ as a Kiwi being the Director, and having developed LoTR in the late 1990s, were probably strong reasons for filming LoTR (and then TH, originally to be directed by Guillermo del Toro) there. The variety of locations, countrysides, relative unspoiltness to be found in a relatively “tiny” area compared to any other region on earth didn’t hurt. Perhaps wage levels were also helpful to convince the chronically stingy suits. But for Amazon, New Zealand might at first sight simply be a place far, far away (oops! That’s Shrek territory! ;-) ). And again, one can do loads of stuff with green screens (which early Star Trek and Doctor Who episodes were so badly lacking).

Pure speculation as of now. When they start getting serious, what exactly do they plan to film – pre-Hobbit? Between Hobbit and LoTR? And LoTR TA 3001 “Long-expected Party” or TA 3018 when Frodo leaves the Shire? Locations (if they do studio green screens this might be kept secret)? Cast? Date for broadcasting of the first episode? Maybe things like this can get sorted out faster for TV programs than for the films – and never mind the delays caused by diverse confusion preceding the Hobbit.

Vait und zee. ;-)

_________________
Image


Last edited by Gandolorin on November 17th, 2017, 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: November 17th, 2017, 5:43 pm 
Warden of the Knight
Warden of the Knight
User avatar

Joined: 04 November 2005
Posts: 18416
Location: In a pudle on Naboo with dragon kind and ents and Jedi and wolves living in the Last Homely House!
Gender: Male

Offline
I would certainly prefer they use New Zealand.... It would not feel right if any one location was obviously different and supposed to be the same location.
:/

Had a question about this also, if anyone knows the answer.

The way it sounded in the article I was reading, I got the impression that only Amazon Prime members get access to the show. Is that accurate or no?
I wasn't sure if it was that, or maybe a prime membership just grants you free access and everyone else has to pay X amount. I have never messed with Amazon prime so I have no idea how that works.

_________________
Image

Image

Visit The Varsian Kingdom!


Top
 Profile       WWW     YIM        
 
 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: November 17th, 2017, 6:11 pm 
Elf
Elf
User avatar

Joined: 05 March 2017
Posts: 1195
Location: I've been where Aragorn hasn't, but I now live in a cross between Hobbiton and Rivendell.
Country: Germany (de)
Gender: Male

Offline
We have 48 channels on cable (and would have a similar number on satellite, things are organized differently in Germany than the US – all I can say is that rumors I have heard about cable TV in the US indicates it is an entirely different animal than here in Germany) which are not PPV. We theoretically have about 400 channels (as did my mother with her big satellite dish) available. Almost 350 of them seem to be PPV, and very many are in languages we do not understand. Quite a few are pure advertising channels. And there are still dozens, probably hundreds of channels at least in the English-speaking world (UK, US, AUS, NZ, rest of Commonwealth) which are not even offered. So not subscribing to Amazon TV (and others of the Internet crowd) will for me simply mean not having access to 1001 instead of 1000 channels. Bfd, if you get my meaning. :goofy:

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: November 17th, 2017, 11:59 pm 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
User avatar

Joined: 02 January 2007
Posts: 2619
Location: The Lakeshore of Annúminas
Country: Gondor (xg)

Offline
Gandolorin wrote:
When they start getting serious, what exactly do they plan to film – pre-Hobbit? Between Hobbit and LoTR? And LoTR TA 3001 “Long-expected Party” or TA 3018 when Frodo leaves the Shire? Locations (if they do studio green screens this might be kept secret)? Cast? Date for broadcasting of the first episode? Maybe things like this can get sorted out faster for TV programs than for the films – and never mind the delays caused by diverse confusion preceding the Hobbit.

Vait und zee. ;-)



What could they film? Easy! Without bringing the Silmarillion into it, the Appendices and Unfinished Tales is a gold mine of Middle Earth historical summaries that one could use to make some good television. Think of it as RP/Fan-Fiction video.
Naturally, some I thought of are the topics of RP & Fan-Fiction I’ve been a part of. With the TV/ Game of Thrones format, one could dedicate one or more episodes Here are a few ideas. :
  • The Fall of Arthedain - Third Age 1974
  • The Kin Strife of Gondor - Third Age 1432 to 1448
  • The Division of Arnor - Third Age 861
  • The Downfall of Numenor –
  • The Last Alliance
  • Aldaron and Erendis
  • The Long Winter - Third Age 2957-58
  • The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen
I could go on and on. As most of this is only a vague outline, it would be up to the writers to fill it in with quality material. Going by how these series have been made, there would be different writers and directors for different episodes. My guess is they will pick a season theme and produce however many episodes to cover the tale. Of course they could go into the light stuff, like The Days of Master Samwise, or Gollum’s Tale, or such, but I’m hoping it goes much deeper.

Amazon Prime is like Netflix, HBO, Stan, FoxTel, etc. with some added benefits like free shipping on ordered products, a credit card offer, etc. They likely will be the only outlet, but depending on the business deal with the estate and Warner and New Line, it may get airing on other outlets in other countries.


And to add further to this discussion...

Originally posted by Straelbora on Middle Earth Rangers Forum » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:31 am
Quote:
"Some legal background:

Fearing onerous death taxes that were in place in the UK in the late '60s, Tolkien sold the film rights to "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" (including appendices) to United Artists, the studio created by a bunch of actors who got sick of being screwed over by studios.

When the film rights were sold, both projects were thought to be unfilmable, except as animation. Tolkien notoriously disliked Disney's work and in part may have sold the rights to UA in order to make sure that Disney never got a hold of his stories. Tolkien had even been approached to sell the rights so that Stanley Kubrick could make a "Lord of the Rings" starring the Beatles!

UA toyed with some live action films, but could never get a project put together. Saul Zaentz, a film and music producer with a sketchy relationship to the artists he produced, bought the rights from UA in 1976 and put them into play, working with long-established Rankin-Bass productions for 1977's animated "The Hobbit" and with animator Ralph Bakshi, resulting in the 1978 animated "Lord of the Rings." Zaentz also started to monetize Tolkien's work, licensing toys, role playing games, etc.

Funding ran out during Bakshi's production. He was known for roto-scoping, that is, filming actors and then using the film cells to trace animation, in order to get realistic movement. Because the money ran out, parts of his "LotR" are animation against painted backdrops, and others colorized film footage of, say, guys in gorilla masks as Orcs. Bakshi's project was supposed to be a 2 film project- his film ends at the Battle of Helm's Deep. Bakshi's incomplete film wasn't a box office success, to Zaentz went back to Rankin-Bass to make a film to complete Bakshi's project, resulting in 1980's straight to TV "Return of the King."

While Zaentz was making cartoons from the film rights, since J. R. R. Tolkien's death in 1973, his son Christopher was editing his father's copious notes. Although said to be a posthumous publication, 1977's "The Silmarillion" (same year as the animated Hobbit), is, in fact, copyrighted to Christopher Tolkien, and not J. R. R. Tolkien's estate.

I would love to review the original sale of film rights contract between Tolkien and United Artists. I believe it has similar language to that of the Edgar Rice Burroughs' estate's "Tarzan" materials, in that, although the estate can't say who can produce what films, they are allowed to 'protect the integrity' of the intellectual material (for example, killing a pornographic version of a "Tarzan" film). The Tolkien estate fought and lost the licensing of video games. They did win, however, on stopping Zaentz from licensing gambling machines with "Hobbit" themes, as that sullies the overall reputation of the property.

Christopher Tolkien did not like the film versions that Zaentz produced with Peter Jackson. One of his greatest fears has already come true: that the imagery of the film has supplanted his father's work. For example, how many of us default to Weta's 'ethnic' design for all things Elvish, Dwarven, Rohirrim, etc. Christopher Tolkien, and NOT the J. R. R. Tolkien estate, holds the copyright for "The Silmarillion" and all other books that he edited based upon his father's notes. Christopher Tolkien has repeated stated that none of his works will ever have the film rights sold, and that whomever takes over as trustee of his estate must abide by his wishes that the film rights are never to be sold.

A lot of people get this mixed up: "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" are under the control of the J. R. R. Tolkien estate, and the film rights were sold decades ago. The estate still negotiates it's amount of money to receive from licensing deals that Saul Zaentz, and later, his heirs at Middle-earth Enterprises, make, as well as some veto control if the licensing deal were to besmirch the intellectual property.

"The Silmarillion," "The Children of Hurin," etc. are all copyrighted to Christopher Tolkien, who is adamant that no film rights shall ever be sold relating to those books, even after his death."


This all makes sense, and so the TV shows will likely be mined from the appendices (Aragorn and Arwen comes to mind). May we hope for the best, and expect the worst.

--

_________________
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Dunedain Ranger of the North
Annalist, Physician, & Historian
of The Black Company of the Dúnedain,
The Free Company of Arnor


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: November 18th, 2017, 6:40 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 03 June 2005
Posts: 4075
Location: In my dreams
Country: United States (us)
Gender: Female

Offline
^Huh, I didn't realized the film rights to LotR weren't even held by the Tolkien estate. Also this explains why there have been so many video games that play fast and loose with Tolkien's material. I always wondered about that. I thought Chris Tolkien just wasn't doing his job! And that it was pretty rich for him to complain about the way PJ portrayed Middle-earth and then license any Tom Dick or Harry video game company to produce these fanfictionesce stories. I owe him an apology. He is truly the purest fan of his father's work of us all. :notworthy: (Thank you for posting that, Hanasian!)

Jax Nova wrote:
Taurquende, I hope beyond hope that they will do just that. Go that extra mile to satisfy the hard core Tolkienites. Of they do it could be amazing!


I believe this is what happened with Game of Thrones. The books had such hard core fans, and HBO made the show specifically to attract those new customers. When it was about to premiere I remember reading about people pooling their resources to buy HBO so they could all watch it together. And as far as I'm concerned those were the little leagues compared to Tolkien fans! We spent 5 years debating whether it was acceptable to portray the Balrog with wings!! :lol:

Re: locations... I hate to keep harping back to Game of Thrones (I don't even like it :P) but it was heavily inspired by LotR, and they film it in Ireland. A similar latitude and landscape to England but not as industrialized. I really hope they don't green-screen the whole thing. Computer graphics are incredible these days but IMO one of the reasons LotR was so much better than The Hobbit was that they used a lot of visual effects and real locations over special effects and computer rendering. It grounds the fantasy of the material in an unpolished, real world and it makes it all more believable.

It guess it'll depend on who they hire to actually make this thing. Who wants to bet they're pitching it to PJ right now?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: November 18th, 2017, 7:04 pm 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
User avatar

Joined: 02 January 2007
Posts: 2619
Location: The Lakeshore of Annúminas
Country: Gondor (xg)

Offline
Taurquende wrote:
Who wants to bet they're pitching it to PJ right now?


If they go that route, you will hear me scream like Frodo when Gandalf fell fighting the Balrog. >:(

_________________
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Dunedain Ranger of the North
Annalist, Physician, & Historian
of The Black Company of the Dúnedain,
The Free Company of Arnor


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: November 19th, 2017, 1:57 pm 
Elf
Elf
User avatar

Joined: 05 March 2017
Posts: 1195
Location: I've been where Aragorn hasn't, but I now live in a cross between Hobbiton and Rivendell.
Country: Germany (de)
Gender: Male

Offline
One thing I’m wondering about is how unusual was the writers / directors constellation of the LoTR film trilogy and (ultimately) that of TH? (PJ was actually a three-hatter in both cases, though perhaps to varying degrees: screenplay, director, and producer).

So are we going to see a split between the writers and directors jobs for the TV series? If so, who are potential writers and directors whose involvement would at least avoid a “Three Stooges” reaction of hair standing on end (created by using an industrial vacuum cleaner, if memory serves)?

P.S. I own three biographies on Douglas Adams, creator of “The Hitchhiker’s Guide To The Galaxy”, by Simpson, Webb respectively Gaiman et.al. Adams’s (during his own lifetime) fruitless battle with Hollywood to get “Hitchhiker” filmed is almost more legendary than his writer’s block. The screenplay credits for the film finally released (logically, not ironically) about four years after his death name Adams and Karey Kirkpatrick as screenplay writers. In one of the three biographies, it is pointed out that according to regulations (screenwriter’s guild?) someone can only be credited if they are responsible for at least one third of the screenplay (however measured, meaning at most three people could be credited for the screenplay). The point being made in that biography was how much of Adams’s (last?) screenplay actually was in the movie: at most two thirds, at least one third. So how come for TH, Jackson, Walsh, Boyens and del Toro show up as responsible for screenplay? Because I bought my DVD in Europe, where such perhaps arcane regulations are irrelevant?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: November 19th, 2017, 6:54 pm 
Warden of the Knight
Warden of the Knight
User avatar

Joined: 04 November 2005
Posts: 18416
Location: In a pudle on Naboo with dragon kind and ents and Jedi and wolves living in the Last Homely House!
Gender: Male

Offline
Well... I will sum up a reply to everyone and just say... I'm crossing my fingers. (And maybe biting my nails... Just a bit)

_________________
Image

Image

Visit The Varsian Kingdom!


Top
 Profile       WWW     YIM        
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Boyz theme by Zarron Media 2003