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 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: January 30th, 2018, 7:02 pm 
Istari
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Erm. Perhaps Sir Ian has not checked his Appendix B recently. In the text heading the annals for the third age: “When maybe a thousand years had passed, and the first shadow had fallen on Greenwood the Great, the Istari or Wizards appeared in Middle-earth.” Perhaps the garbage PJ had him say as he left Théoden and the others before the Battle of Helm’s Deep in TTT to gather those Rohan forces which had scattered after the second Battle at the Fords of Isen messed up his memory: “Three hundred lives of men I walk this Middle-earth, and now I have no time.” 300 times 70 is 21000. W-a-a-a-a-a-y off. Thirty lives would come close to the 2000 years Gandalf had been in Middle-earth.

But then, consider that Sir Christopher Lee was 90 and too frail to travel to New Zealand for the filming of The Hobbit, so they did the filming of his scenes in London (he died at 93 in 2015 before the EE of BoFA was released). In the BoFA theatrical version we have the “White Council” (here reduced to Saruman, Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf, though the latter has to be rescued by the other three) drives Sauron from Dol Guldur. “Saruman’s” double naturally takes care of all the martial arts action, so for such scenes in the TV series the same procedure could be used for any Gandalf fighting. Sir Ian is, at 78, still quite a bit younger than Sir Christopher was when filming of The Hobbit began (Sir Christopher was actually 77 when principal photography for LoTR began in 1999, and 82 when the EE of ROTK came out). So from that point of view, Sir Ian should be able to do at least what Sir Christopher was able to do for The Hobbit.

As I’ve become rather ignorant of movies and actors since I last was in a cinema in early 2004 for RoTK, I do not have the slightest idea who might be a replacement for Gandalf. I once joked elsewhere that if we wait for a few more years, Viggo Mortensen (to be 60 at the end of this year, the whelp! ;-) ) could slip into the Gandalf role, and my favorite for Saruman in than case would be Liam Neeson (to be 66 this year) …

Any suggestions, Hanasian?

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 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: May 22nd, 2018, 2:03 am 
Ringwraith
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I heard the first season is going to be about Aragorn when he was young.

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 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: May 22nd, 2018, 8:46 pm 
Gondorian
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Yay! I hope they do the timeline right. I would love to see him in rivendell when Bilbo passes through! According to the tale of years, he was 10!

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 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: May 23rd, 2018, 1:36 pm 
Istari
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Aragorn wasn’t even told his true name and his heritage until 10 years after the BoFA, in 2951, when he was 20 (which was also the first time he met Arwen). Five years later, he first met Gandalf, and they became friends. Then up to 2980 his great travels and errands including his Thorongil phase in Rohan and Gondor. Then another 38 years until Aragorn met the four hobbits in Bree. Plenty of stuff with blank pages for scriptwriters to let their imaginations run free (or wild). What would really send the TV series into the cesspits for me would be a repeat of the Kili – Tauriel nonsense of TH the movie. Horrifying visions of the almost universal doom befalling Captain Kirk’s “romantic interests” in the original Star Trek series come to mind *shudder*. :hide:

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 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: May 25th, 2018, 7:57 pm 
Warden of the Knight
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I heard the same thing. I too hope they do it right! It would be too much of a shame if they ruined it. There is so much potential there!

But yes, Aragorn wasn't even born I don't think when Thranduil tells Legolas to find him in PJ's Hobbit translation. I could be wrong but that was my understanding. Either way... I think they could do it right and it would be great!! I hope so.

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 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: May 27th, 2018, 12:56 pm 
Istari
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Jax Nova wrote:
... But yes, Aragorn wasn't even born I don't think when Thranduil tells Legolas to find him in PJ's Hobbit translation...

Actually, Aragorn was then ten, being born on TA 2931. BoFA was 2941. Bilbo only returned to Hobbiton in 2942 because it was a looooong way back. He and Gandalf didn't go through Mirkwood on the way back, rather along its northern borders accompanied by Beorn, which was quite a detour. Bilbo and Gandalf then also stayed in Beorn's house for a spell, and also in Imladris with Elrond. And they were not in anything like the same hurry as on the way "there" to Erebor. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: May 27th, 2018, 2:28 pm 
Elf
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^That is the case in the books, but the film timeline is different. There’s no 17 year gap between the long expected party and Frodo’s departure for Bree so for Aragorn to still be 87 by the time of TT he’d actually be about 27 at the time Thranduil sends Legolas off to look for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: May 28th, 2018, 12:17 pm 
Istari
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Quite correct in principle, Lembas. Though I can’t remember (which may be due to it having been quite a while since I watched any of my – EE – DVDS) there being any references to dates either according to the Dúnedain calendar or to the one according to Shire Reckoning (maybe Gandalf telling Frodo what day it was after Frodo woke up in Imladris after – barely – escaping the Ringwraiths in FoTR?).

And while the gap of 17 years between Bilbo’s 111th birthday and Frodo’s leaving Hobbiton was eliminated by PJ, the Gap must have been at least one year, as the seasons in FoTR the film fit those of the book (Frodo left Hobbiton after having celebrated Bilbo’s 128th birthday and having handed over Bag End to the Sackville-Bagginses), and anyway Bilbo settled in Imladris one year after he had left (having visited Erebor in the time in between). So Frodo would have left 3002 TA (1402 SR), and Aragorn mentioning (in an EE addition to TTT, involving, highly improbably, Éowyn) that he was 87 would then have been in 3003 TA, making his year of birth 2916 TA. Actually, the Rohan business having been in 3019 TA in the book, Aragorn was then 88.

I’m guessing that PJ avoided any specific references to calendar years by any calendar precisely because he had dumped the 17 years between Bilbo’s 111th birthday and Frodo leaving Hobbiton. I clearly remember Elijah Wood claiming (probably in the FoTR EE) that this falsification of the book by PJ had been “accepted” by the audience. Wrong, kid. There were those who had no idea that there was any discrepancy, an then there were those (myself included) who reacted with “you’re just so full of §$%&ß@€µ, kid!”

PJ put what he did with Middle-earth in, as far as calendars were concerned, into a never-never-land or limbo. Which does give the TV series aspirants quite a bit more leeway. Taking the books as the primary source, PJ’s films are a secondary one, and the TV series is likely to be a tertiary one. The TV series makers are more likely, is my guess, to use PJ’s films as a background than the book (though compared to actual viewers of the films, not the US Dollar gross revenues, there may be several million more book readers than film viewers). But then, JRRT himself considered his works to be a secondary world … I’ll leave it to others to give names to the following stages …

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Last edited by Gandolorin on June 7th, 2018, 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: June 6th, 2018, 9:10 pm 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
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Yes! Good News! At least a reason to be hopeful!

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 Post subject: Re: Middle Earth TV Series!
PostPosted: June 7th, 2018, 3:21 pm 
Istari
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Maybe, some of you will see, whenever the thing finally hits the little screen. But as the books have little more than short entries in Appendix B for story, are the TV folks going to delve deeply into them for character studies? I’d guess that, movies and TV both being visual media, they’re going to take PJ’s movies as the visual and characterization canon. Depending on where between Bilbo’s return from Erebor in 2942 TA and Aragorn’s meeting with the Hobbits in Bree in 3018 TA (I’m sticking with the books timeline) they place their 99% fanfic, people would be (a lot) younger, some not even born. But then they might go PJ’s way of chucking any confining calendars out the window as cramping their options.

Now one thing I’m utterly ignorant about is the demographic that Amazon TV usually caters for. Must we expect a further dumbing down of the storylines even below what PJ perpetrated? My experience with what the commercial TV networks have perpetrated on us in Germany in the over 30 years since they were licensed fills me with foreboding … :wary:

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