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 Post subject: Translation
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2007, 2:01 pm 


Does anyone know the Elvish word for "Fire"?


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PostPosted: April 3rd, 2007, 4:04 pm 
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It could be 'naur' according to the Council of Elrond's dictionary... I don't know how you would conjugate it though... Narya translates Ring of Fire... Fëanor translates Fire spirit so.. yeah... but the actual noun should be naur. :angel:

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PostPosted: April 3rd, 2007, 5:22 pm 


Thanks Ea. :)


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PostPosted: April 4th, 2007, 12:53 am 
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In Sindarin "Naur" would mean Fire. You might also be able to use the word "ûr" in reference to fire/heat.

Gandaulf's Fire Spel (Sindarin):
"Naur an edraith ammen! Naur dan i ngaurhoth!" LOTR
Fire for saving of us. Fire against the werewolves!

If you are looking for a verb of "to Flame" then "Lacha-" may be a choice for you.
Lacho calad! Drego morn! UT
Flame light! Flee Night!

Hope this helps :-D sorry I can't do much with Quenya :annoyed: (yet) but you might want to check out Helge Fauskangers excellent Quenya wordlist at http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/wordlists.htm


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PostPosted: April 7th, 2007, 11:11 am 


thank you for the link. :D


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PostPosted: April 8th, 2007, 8:00 pm 
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how do you say 'hello' in elvish and dwarvish.

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PostPosted: April 9th, 2007, 5:52 am 
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"Mae govannen" is "well met" in Sindarin which is usually used for saying hello. But I don't really know about Quenya or Dwarvish

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PostPosted: April 9th, 2007, 9:58 am 
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Mae govannen is used in LotR for well met as Eruhin said.
Suilaid (or suilad) is commonly used for greetings too, but I don't think it's mentioned in LotR.

i don't know about Dwarvish...

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PostPosted: April 10th, 2007, 5:57 am 


Suilad (or Suilaid, there seems to be some differentiation on its spelling between sources) is the closest we get to 'hello'. It literally means 'greetings'. But as said, mae govannen is often used, and means 'well met'. Those are the most basic ways of saying hello in Sindarin. 'Mára aurë' is hello in Quenya.

Khuzdul (Dwarvish) is much harder, as Tolkien did not write nearly so much on dwarvish. I have no idea how to say anything in Khuzdul, and there is only a very limited vocabulary anyway.


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PostPosted: April 11th, 2007, 1:50 am 
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"Suilad" I believe is a reconstruction but by who I am not sure...any comments on this would be appreciated :-D.

For a touch of elegance you could use a Quenya greeting found in "The Lord of the Rings" "Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo" meaning "A star shines upon the hour of our meeting."

Here is another translation of this same phrase from "The War of the Jewels" into Telerin (a language closely related to Quenya): "Él síla lúmena vomentienguo"

Professor Tolkien (from what has been published anyway) never translated this phrase into Sindarin, but Florian Dombach (Lothenon) translates it as "Êl síla na lû govaded vín"

*Sigh* Khuzdul (Dwarvish) is one of those languages I really want more information on :annoyed:!!! Alas, there is no Khuzdul word or phrase for Hello.


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PostPosted: April 11th, 2007, 12:22 pm 
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Erythen wrote:
"Suilad" I believe is a reconstruction but by who I am not sure...any comments on this would be appreciated :-D.

I remember having read something like that... in a discussion on Elvish. I think it was stated that Tolkien didn't use Suilaid/Suilad in his writings, but I'm not sure whether he has mentioned it in his personal notes/letters...
I'm just wondering how it came to be so popular if it's a later reconstruction and Tolkien didn't specifically mention it.

I didn't know about the Telrein greeting. Thank you for sharing :-)

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PostPosted: April 12th, 2007, 2:08 pm 
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Just stepping in ...

Tolkien gives _suilannad_ "greeting" in the King's Letter, apparently from _suil-_ and the gerund of _anna-_ "give". This has been shortened to a constructed verb _*suila-_, and then applied as a gerund _*suilad_. _*Suilaid_ is then taken as a plural form ... but that depends on whether it's a gerund or not, and whether they can be pluralized — the only possible attested form of a possibly pluralized gerund is _ethraid_ from _athrad_ "ford" ... but it's nowhere said that _athrad_ is a gerund of _*athra-_ as Salo claims, though it does seem that it was later interpreted as being from the root THAR rather than ATH + RAT. Still, it could simply be a verbal noun with -t suffixed rather than the gerundial -tâ. See _nat_ "thing" vs. _carita_ "to do" as an example ... though Salo ignores this and calls S. _nad_ a gerund "being" as well when the Quenya cognate shows it to be otherwise.


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PostPosted: April 12th, 2007, 2:40 pm 
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Grammar overload!!!
Thank you for the explanation.. though a bit technical for a miserable non-Elvish speaker such as I.
If I read your post correct then Tolkien does nowhere mention the exact form; Suilaid/Suilad - it is a later constructed word - though very plausable construction, correct?

To be annoying and repeat my question; do you know why Suilaid has been so widely recognized and popular used then?

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PostPosted: April 16th, 2007, 12:11 am 
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Thanks for the comment Tyrhael. Suilad was one of those words that I have always wondered about...but anyway this helps Thanks!!!

I can't really say why Suilad is popularly used by most everyone who study Sindarin. It could be that it is easier to use than phrases such as "Mae Govannen", or just that it is one of those words that are accepted by the community as a whole. I've seen many constructions over time grow into common use (some of which I don't agree with). I know that this really doesn't help answer your question but at this time it is really the best I can do.

Examples of reconstructed Sindarin I've noticed most anywhere include:
1. Corf (Ring) by R. Derdzinski
2. Dan (but) by David Salo
3. Govannas (fellowship) by David Salo
4. Hennaid (Thanks)
5. Navaer (Farwell) by R. Derdzinski (I personally really like this one...it is constructed from Quenya: Namarie).

Just to name a few.


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PostPosted: April 16th, 2007, 12:54 pm 
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Thank you for yor answer anyway, Erythen.
I've noticed how Suilaid is one of the few words people know in Elvish even if they don't even know how there is a difference between Sindarin and Quenya. I like the word quite a lot, but probably just because it is so commonly used. I might have liked any of the other reconstructions just as well, if they had become 'the thing to say'.
Also I must say I really like Navaer. I didn't know that was a reconstruction too. I always associated Namarië with a goodbye forever, because this is how Galadriel bids the Fellowship farewell.

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PostPosted: April 20th, 2007, 5:14 pm 
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That is always how I have felt about Namarië, to me it seems to convey a the meaning of an extended farewell (A.K.A. I won't see you for a very long time). Anyway, sorry I couldn't have been much help here :confused2:


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