Rules      FAQ       Register        Login
It is currently August 4th, 2020, 6:24 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 11th, 2006, 5:07 pm 
Vala
Vala
User avatar

Joined: 19 July 2006
Posts: 6433
Location: somewhere sympathy is more than just a way of leaving

Offline
It makes perfect sense to me Eowyn. Nice post.

HirilAlatariel, if that's really what the Ring means to you, go for it.

The Ring means different things to different people, different characters. I guess that's really what we're saying in some of the other posts. As Ea said, the Ring shows us the fulfillment of our wildest dreams. Different people have different dreams, therefore, the Ring would be something different to each one of them. Does that make any sense?


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 11th, 2006, 10:17 pm 
Dwarf
Dwarf

Joined: 16 August 2006
Posts: 69
Location: IN.

Offline
I do understand what you are saying and yes, I think it is true. I think that's why Tolkien's writings are so popular. I also have debated this with my grandfather over and over and found that Tolkien said He didn't not like Allegories when he was young, and that does not mean he didn't like them when he got older. We don't know... over the course of 14yrs, how much LOTR changed and so Tolkien might have said that when he first started writing it, but as he grew older he may have liked allegories more... and might have changed the view of thee Ring to be an allegories towards sin... he was Catholic and to my findings more Christan.

Thanks for replying!

Alatariel


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 12th, 2006, 4:38 am 
Istari
Istari
User avatar

Joined: 19 September 2006
Posts: 2126
Location: england

Offline
i cut a bit out of the quote i used cuz i didn't think it was necessary, but apparently it was. he actually said "I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence" - he never changed his mind. his faith certainly influenced his work a lot (as a christian myself, i can see the marks it left all over the place) but never to the point of making the work directly allegorical. i'm not saying it's wrong to say the ring represents sin (certainly makes sense to me), i'm just saying it's not the only option and it's not one that tolkien prescribed.


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 12th, 2006, 11:36 am 
Ent
Ent
User avatar

Joined: 15 September 2006
Posts: 626
Location: With Frodo and Sam in the Shire

Offline
I believe that there is sooo much that the ring represents. Thrugh it, we can see how friendship and love is a much stronger force than evil, as Frodo and Sam fight their way to Mordor, and the ring begins to take hold, their friendship begins to grow stronger. We see this in many scenes and at the end of the trilogy, when Frodo kisses Sam on the head. It shows his appreciation of such a good friend. They were like Brothers towards the end, as were each and every other character within the fellowship by the end of the movie. Therefore, not only does the one ring represent things, it also provokes things, such as strong friendship and love.

We can also see that the ring does, as many have stated, represents temptation, and the force of temptation. The fact that the ring is so powerful it calls to those who bear it to keep it, or put it on. It corrupts even the most pure of heart, through the force of greed. The ring has many pruposes within the Lord of the Rings and i believe that to name one purpose in particular that the ring stands for, is in essence...Impossible.

_________________
<center><font size="0">'Before you came along we bagginses were <i>very</i> well thought of...never had any adventures or did anything unexpected!''</font></br><a href="http://www.frodoforever.com/"><img src="http://www.hufflepuffpride.com/frodo/claim2.gif" border="0" width="200" height="120"></a>


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 15th, 2006, 11:59 pm 
Maia
Maia
User avatar

Joined: 21 August 2006
Posts: 4076
Location: Out Walking

Offline
hm.... that's really something to think about... like it sort of implies, I think it represents power and how power can over rule your life and make you greedy, but I believe it's also representing evil. Sauron is sort of the epitome of all evil in LotR, and he forged this ring to be even more evil, so I would say it represents evil. But it could possibly be used for good, so I wouldn't say it represents evil. Someone mentioned temptation, and I think that's a VERY good analogy. It's like a temptation of power, that could lead to sin. That make sense?

_________________
<center>
Receiving So Much More.
Image
PM me with prayer requests
www.therebelution.com
</center>


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 29th, 2006, 9:53 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 03 June 2005
Posts: 13144
Location: Heaven: Rockin' with Severus Snape
Country: England (en)
Gender: Female

Offline
Tinuviel's Tears wrote:
As Ea said, the Ring shows us the fulfillment of our wildest dreams.


But is it really a fulfillment? At first it may seem so, but after a while things will begin to change. Isildur thought the Ring to be a fulfillment, yet he died because of it. I don't consider death [unless it is of the enemy] to be any kind of life fulfillment. Ultimately, the Ring brings evil, it may bring us what we want in the beginning, but time eventually shows us what it's uses really are. Something so evil can not possibly fulfill our dreams [unless they are evil], is what I'm trying to say here.


Last edited by Larael on November 5th, 2006, 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 30th, 2006, 4:31 am 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 12592
Gender: Female

Offline
^No It is not a fulfillment, because the Ring is treacherous, it lies. It showes us what we want to see and want to become. But it twists the mind and never shows the consequences or what goes beyond our dreams. In my previous post I said the Ring shows us the fulfillment of our wildest dreams, and sure it makes a promise, but it only shows one side of the case.
(It is much like with Will's failing negotiation technique in PotC. Jack and Elisabeth are set free - he just forgot to specify under what conditions (apologies for drawing on a movie example again))
Or when Frodo looks into the mirror of Galadriel, he sees a part of the future as it could end up, but he can't see how it ended up that way or whether it it true or not.

I think the power of the Ring manipulates the mind in such a way that the things it shows appears to be real as long as it holds its spell over the mind.

_________________
>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Image

Image
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 30th, 2006, 10:35 am 
Vala
Vala
User avatar

Joined: 19 July 2006
Posts: 6433
Location: somewhere sympathy is more than just a way of leaving

Offline
^Exactly how I would have responded and thank you to Ea for explaining it so well. The Ring, shows us the fulfillment of our dreams, but it does not fulfill them. Empty promises. It twists and manipulates the truth to make us think certain things will happen, and sometimes they do happen, but never in the way you thought they would. Make sense? Sort of? Another comparison for it is Denethor and the Palantir. The Palantir, under the influence of Sauron, distorts the truth to make Denethor believe the worst is going to happen, consequently to lose all hope and go mad.
So..... I hope I didn't confuse anyone.


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 30th, 2006, 6:01 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 15181
Location: Minas Morgul

Offline
I've always felt, that the One Ring represented different things in the perspective of different people.

For example, when Sauron was in possession of it, the One Ring was he source of his power, his mighty reign. Therefore, it represented his power.

However, when Isildur managed to get his hands on the One Ring, he looked at it as his way to rule, his own way to reign ---- then it represented Isildur's greed.

Gollum/Smeagol. When Deagol and Smeagol came upon, the One Ring just basically turned them against each other, almost seeing who was the strongest so as to possess them. Obviously, Smeagol won, hence the existence of Gollum and the One Ring represented the death of Deagol and temporarily the death of Smeagol.

Bilbo >> To me, when Bilbo had it, it represented a bit of a Edge over everyone else. He could become invisible, that's one up on everyone else. The One Ring provided him an Escape.

Gandalf / Elves >> When the One Ring is mentioned or they are in the presence of the One, the see it as evil itself, it is created in darkness, drenched in evil. They saw it as the bane of men, and it is proven to be so.

_________________
<center>

THE HALLOWFEST 2010
<a href="http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20958">information here</a>


</center>


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 30th, 2006, 6:16 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 12592
Gender: Female

Offline
Don't worry T.T. you worded it very clearly. And I actually also thought of the example with Denethor, a very valid one in my opinion, and i have recently browsed through the Denethor thread where it is also debated, what Sauron lets him see in the Palantír.

Kitoky, very interesting points! I like the way you specified for each keeper of the Ring since we tend to talk about the power of the Ring in general.
But what about Frodo? What does the One Ring represent in relation to him? :angel:

_________________
>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Image

Image
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 30th, 2006, 6:44 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 15181
Location: Minas Morgul

Offline
Frodo's a curious one since we follow him throughout the story and we gradually see the effect of the ring on him.


In some points Frodo seems to have submittd to the Ring's power even though he's still fighting it. Frodo is submissive to the Ring's presence because it overpowers his own. Frodo rarely pulls out of the ring, as he is in fear of it. And that's what I think Frodo sees the One Ring as. He sees it as his master and Frodo is a slave to his power, he is in fear of the ring although he is slowly driving for it to be destroyed. Almost like a candle. A candle burns ferociously until its out of wax and eventually it burns itself out.

_________________
<center>

THE HALLOWFEST 2010
<a href="http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20958">information here</a>


</center>


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: November 5th, 2006, 6:38 am 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 12592
Gender: Female

Offline
^Very true, nice analysis.
Frodo carries the Ring through a time with great changes and where the Dark Lord is rising again. He must have felt the drawing and the horror of the Ring much more than any other Ringbearer. He is the only one who sees Sauron through the Ring, so he knows what he is up against.

_________________
>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Image

Image
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: November 5th, 2006, 1:41 pm 
Vala
Vala
User avatar

Joined: 19 July 2006
Posts: 6433
Location: somewhere sympathy is more than just a way of leaving

Offline
^ Very good and insiteful last few posts. Kitoky, you make a lot of very good points. I like your comparison of Frodo to a candle, in which case I suppose the Ring would be the flame?
What the Ring is to Frodo seems to be one of the hardest things to figure out. I've heard people compare it to a very addictive drug. Addicts most likely loathe the substances that they are addicted to which control them, and they probably also feel some self loathing because they cannot break the addiction. Yet, they can't stop being addicts. I think that's a lot like what it's like for Frodo. He hates the Ring with all his being, and yet, he is subject to the will of the Ring as the Ring overpowers him. There has to be an unimaginable amount of torment in being a slave to something that you hate so wholly.
So...... I'm not really sure if that makes any sense or continues along the right path, but I thought I'd throw it in there. :P


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: November 5th, 2006, 1:47 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 15181
Location: Minas Morgul

Offline
The comparison to an addictive drug is very good. Though I never felt Frodo to be very influenced and in wanting to use the one ring, in all the times, he's forced to use it and when he does, there are severe consequences.

_________________
<center>

THE HALLOWFEST 2010
<a href="http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20958">information here</a>


</center>


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: November 9th, 2006, 1:21 am 
Gondorian
Gondorian
User avatar

Joined: 03 June 2006
Posts: 302
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
Country: United States (us)

Offline
Kitoky wrote:
Frodo is submissive to the Ring's presence because it overpowers his own. Frodo rarely pulls out of the ring, as he is in fear of it. And that's what I think Frodo sees the One Ring as. He sees it as his master and Frodo is a slave to his power...


I have been following your very interesting conversation. In this treacherous time Frodo's weakness is his strength. It is what brings him the title of ringbearer. Certainly the ring is a great burden to him and a curse from beginning to end. But though he sees no apparent visions of grandeur or wild dreams to be fulfilled, he is not out of the grasp of its appeal...it is not without peril to himin this way. In the end it represented something to Frodo that mesmerizes him every bit as much as it did Isidur long ago....something he must have wanted or longed for badly.

_________________
"If you do not find a way, no one will."


Top
 Profile       WWW     YIM        
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: November 9th, 2006, 4:09 pm 
Hobbit
Hobbit
User avatar

Joined: 15 August 2006
Posts: 42

Offline
Good points the ones that you've posted! I like the way you compare Frodo and the Ring with every-day-life things :) And yep, I do consider that, in some way, Frodo has an internal fight, trying to control himself and trying to avoid the Ring to be his master. Sometimes, we see him as the Ring's slave, some others we see how he tries to reject its influence, but we cannot deny the Ring has gone too deep in him, that's something he will never be recovered from.

_________________
..>>are u sure that there will be a "tomorrow"?<<..

Image

Since I met u, I knew you were special :) thank you for everything Fer ^^
How do you go on when in your heart you begin to understand, there's no going back?


Top
 Profile                  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Boyz theme by Zarron Media 2003