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| What does the One Ring represent? http://arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10846 |
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| Author: | Starlight [ October 11th, 2006, 5:07 pm ] |
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It makes perfect sense to me Eowyn. Nice post. HirilAlatariel, if that's really what the Ring means to you, go for it. The Ring means different things to different people, different characters. I guess that's really what we're saying in some of the other posts. As Ea said, the Ring shows us the fulfillment of our wildest dreams. Different people have different dreams, therefore, the Ring would be something different to each one of them. Does that make any sense? |
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| Author: | HirilAlatariel [ October 11th, 2006, 10:17 pm ] |
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I do understand what you are saying and yes, I think it is true. I think that's why Tolkien's writings are so popular. I also have debated this with my grandfather over and over and found that Tolkien said He didn't not like Allegories when he was young, and that does not mean he didn't like them when he got older. We don't know... over the course of 14yrs, how much LOTR changed and so Tolkien might have said that when he first started writing it, but as he grew older he may have liked allegories more... and might have changed the view of thee Ring to be an allegories towards sin... he was Catholic and to my findings more Christan. Thanks for replying! Alatariel |
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| Author: | ethelfleda [ October 12th, 2006, 4:38 am ] |
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i cut a bit out of the quote i used cuz i didn't think it was necessary, but apparently it was. he actually said "I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence" - he never changed his mind. his faith certainly influenced his work a lot (as a christian myself, i can see the marks it left all over the place) but never to the point of making the work directly allegorical. i'm not saying it's wrong to say the ring represents sin (certainly makes sense to me), i'm just saying it's not the only option and it's not one that tolkien prescribed. |
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| Author: | Frodos-Guide [ October 12th, 2006, 11:36 am ] |
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I believe that there is sooo much that the ring represents. Thrugh it, we can see how friendship and love is a much stronger force than evil, as Frodo and Sam fight their way to Mordor, and the ring begins to take hold, their friendship begins to grow stronger. We see this in many scenes and at the end of the trilogy, when Frodo kisses Sam on the head. It shows his appreciation of such a good friend. They were like Brothers towards the end, as were each and every other character within the fellowship by the end of the movie. Therefore, not only does the one ring represent things, it also provokes things, such as strong friendship and love. We can also see that the ring does, as many have stated, represents temptation, and the force of temptation. The fact that the ring is so powerful it calls to those who bear it to keep it, or put it on. It corrupts even the most pure of heart, through the force of greed. The ring has many pruposes within the Lord of the Rings and i believe that to name one purpose in particular that the ring stands for, is in essence...Impossible. |
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| Author: | The Nightingale [ October 15th, 2006, 11:59 pm ] |
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hm.... that's really something to think about... like it sort of implies, I think it represents power and how power can over rule your life and make you greedy, but I believe it's also representing evil. Sauron is sort of the epitome of all evil in LotR, and he forged this ring to be even more evil, so I would say it represents evil. But it could possibly be used for good, so I wouldn't say it represents evil. Someone mentioned temptation, and I think that's a VERY good analogy. It's like a temptation of power, that could lead to sin. That make sense? |
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| Author: | Larael [ October 29th, 2006, 9:53 pm ] |
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Tinuviel's Tears wrote: As Ea said, the Ring shows us the fulfillment of our wildest dreams.
But is it really a fulfillment? At first it may seem so, but after a while things will begin to change. Isildur thought the Ring to be a fulfillment, yet he died because of it. I don't consider death [unless it is of the enemy] to be any kind of life fulfillment. Ultimately, the Ring brings evil, it may bring us what we want in the beginning, but time eventually shows us what it's uses really are. Something so evil can not possibly fulfill our dreams [unless they are evil], is what I'm trying to say here. |
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| Author: | Eä [ October 30th, 2006, 4:31 am ] |
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^No It is not a fulfillment, because the Ring is treacherous, it lies. It showes us what we want to see and want to become. But it twists the mind and never shows the consequences or what goes beyond our dreams. In my previous post I said the Ring shows us the fulfillment of our wildest dreams, and sure it makes a promise, but it only shows one side of the case. (It is much like with Will's failing negotiation technique in PotC. Jack and Elisabeth are set free - he just forgot to specify under what conditions (apologies for drawing on a movie example again)) Or when Frodo looks into the mirror of Galadriel, he sees a part of the future as it could end up, but he can't see how it ended up that way or whether it it true or not. I think the power of the Ring manipulates the mind in such a way that the things it shows appears to be real as long as it holds its spell over the mind. |
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| Author: | Starlight [ October 30th, 2006, 10:35 am ] |
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^Exactly how I would have responded and thank you to Ea for explaining it so well. The Ring, shows us the fulfillment of our dreams, but it does not fulfill them. Empty promises. It twists and manipulates the truth to make us think certain things will happen, and sometimes they do happen, but never in the way you thought they would. Make sense? Sort of? Another comparison for it is Denethor and the Palantir. The Palantir, under the influence of Sauron, distorts the truth to make Denethor believe the worst is going to happen, consequently to lose all hope and go mad. So..... I hope I didn't confuse anyone. |
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| Author: | Kitoky [ October 30th, 2006, 6:01 pm ] |
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I've always felt, that the One Ring represented different things in the perspective of different people. For example, when Sauron was in possession of it, the One Ring was he source of his power, his mighty reign. Therefore, it represented his power. However, when Isildur managed to get his hands on the One Ring, he looked at it as his way to rule, his own way to reign ---- then it represented Isildur's greed. Gollum/Smeagol. When Deagol and Smeagol came upon, the One Ring just basically turned them against each other, almost seeing who was the strongest so as to possess them. Obviously, Smeagol won, hence the existence of Gollum and the One Ring represented the death of Deagol and temporarily the death of Smeagol. Bilbo >> To me, when Bilbo had it, it represented a bit of a Edge over everyone else. He could become invisible, that's one up on everyone else. The One Ring provided him an Escape. Gandalf / Elves >> When the One Ring is mentioned or they are in the presence of the One, the see it as evil itself, it is created in darkness, drenched in evil. They saw it as the bane of men, and it is proven to be so. |
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| Author: | Eä [ October 30th, 2006, 6:16 pm ] |
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Don't worry T.T. you worded it very clearly. And I actually also thought of the example with Denethor, a very valid one in my opinion, and i have recently browsed through the Denethor thread where it is also debated, what Sauron lets him see in the Palantír. Kitoky, very interesting points! I like the way you specified for each keeper of the Ring since we tend to talk about the power of the Ring in general. But what about Frodo? What does the One Ring represent in relation to him? 
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| Author: | Kitoky [ October 30th, 2006, 6:44 pm ] |
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Frodo's a curious one since we follow him throughout the story and we gradually see the effect of the ring on him. In some points Frodo seems to have submittd to the Ring's power even though he's still fighting it. Frodo is submissive to the Ring's presence because it overpowers his own. Frodo rarely pulls out of the ring, as he is in fear of it. And that's what I think Frodo sees the One Ring as. He sees it as his master and Frodo is a slave to his power, he is in fear of the ring although he is slowly driving for it to be destroyed. Almost like a candle. A candle burns ferociously until its out of wax and eventually it burns itself out. |
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| Author: | Eä [ November 5th, 2006, 6:38 am ] |
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^Very true, nice analysis. Frodo carries the Ring through a time with great changes and where the Dark Lord is rising again. He must have felt the drawing and the horror of the Ring much more than any other Ringbearer. He is the only one who sees Sauron through the Ring, so he knows what he is up against. |
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| Author: | Starlight [ November 5th, 2006, 1:41 pm ] |
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^ Very good and insiteful last few posts. Kitoky, you make a lot of very good points. I like your comparison of Frodo to a candle, in which case I suppose the Ring would be the flame? What the Ring is to Frodo seems to be one of the hardest things to figure out. I've heard people compare it to a very addictive drug. Addicts most likely loathe the substances that they are addicted to which control them, and they probably also feel some self loathing because they cannot break the addiction. Yet, they can't stop being addicts. I think that's a lot like what it's like for Frodo. He hates the Ring with all his being, and yet, he is subject to the will of the Ring as the Ring overpowers him. There has to be an unimaginable amount of torment in being a slave to something that you hate so wholly. So...... I'm not really sure if that makes any sense or continues along the right path, but I thought I'd throw it in there. 
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| Author: | Kitoky [ November 5th, 2006, 1:47 pm ] |
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The comparison to an addictive drug is very good. Though I never felt Frodo to be very influenced and in wanting to use the one ring, in all the times, he's forced to use it and when he does, there are severe consequences. |
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| Author: | Sinbearer [ November 9th, 2006, 1:21 am ] |
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Kitoky wrote: Frodo is submissive to the Ring's presence because it overpowers his own. Frodo rarely pulls out of the ring, as he is in fear of it. And that's what I think Frodo sees the One Ring as. He sees it as his master and Frodo is a slave to his power...
I have been following your very interesting conversation. In this treacherous time Frodo's weakness is his strength. It is what brings him the title of ringbearer. Certainly the ring is a great burden to him and a curse from beginning to end. But though he sees no apparent visions of grandeur or wild dreams to be fulfilled, he is not out of the grasp of its appeal...it is not without peril to himin this way. In the end it represented something to Frodo that mesmerizes him every bit as much as it did Isidur long ago....something he must have wanted or longed for badly. |
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| Author: | Ring_Bearer [ November 9th, 2006, 4:09 pm ] |
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Good points the ones that you've posted! I like the way you compare Frodo and the Ring with every-day-life things  And yep, I do consider that, in some way, Frodo has an internal fight, trying to control himself and trying to avoid the Ring to be his master. Sometimes, we see him as the Ring's slave, some others we see how he tries to reject its influence, but we cannot deny the Ring has gone too deep in him, that's something he will never be recovered from.
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