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Are you a member of the Gothic Club yet?
yes 41%  41%  [ 14 ]
no 59%  59%  [ 20 ]
Total votes : 34
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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 8:36 am 
Ringwraith
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Hey! A club for ppl like me!!!! Could I join?
@Lhunardaien: Exactly. My uncle came to me last week and wanted me to stop being a goth.... becoz he was afraid. I think he just doesn't know what exactly a Goth is. I mean...Sure, there are violent goths, nbut non-goths can be violent, too. They just ...look different. PREJUDICE!!
Goth is a modern subculture that first became popular during the early 1980s within the gothic rock scene, a sub-genre of post punk. It is associated with characteristically "gothic" tastes in music and clothing. Styles of dress range from gothic horror, punk, Vampiric, Victorian, fetish, cybergoth, androgyny, some Renaissance style clothes, a combination of the above, and/or lots of black attire, and makeup. Goth is sometimes mistaken by outsiders for Emo, a different subculture.
Original subculture

Long hair and black leather trench coats are typical features of a gothic look.By the late 1970s, there were a small number of post punk bands in Britain labeled "gothic." However, it was not until the early 1980s that gothic rock became its own subgenre within post-punk and that followers of these bands started to come together as a distinctly recognisable group or movement. The opening of the Batcave in London's Soho in July 1982 might be seen as marking the emergence of this scene (which had briefly been labeled positive punk by the New Musical Express). As one of the most famous meeting points for early goths, it lent its name to the term "Batcaver," used to describe old-school goths.

Independent of the British scene, the late 1970s and early 1980s saw death rock branch off from American punk. With similar themes and dress, goths and death rockers were sufficiently compatible to more or less merge.

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Gothic horror literature

Gothic woman with elaborate clothing of black lace and skull-shaped jewelleryThe gothic novel of the early nineteenth century, was responsible above all else for the term gothic being associated with a mood of horror, darkness and the supernatural. They established what horror stereotypes became by featuring graveyards, ruined castles or churches, ghosts, vampires, nightmares, cursed families, being buried alive and melodramatic plots. Gothic novels are often concerned with the fate of a curious young woman, and a great deal of focus is placed on internal locations. A notable element in these novels was the brooding figure of the gothic villain, which developed into the Byronic hero, a key precursor in the male goth image. The most famous gothic villain of this genre is Dracula. In 1993 Whitby became the location for what became the UK's biggest goth festival as a direct result of being featured in Bram Stoker's Dracula.

The works of Edgar Allan Poe, Algernon Blackwood, William Hope Hodgson and H.P. Lovecraft, masters of the gothic short story, have also been an inspiration for many goths. Percy Bysshe Shelley and Lord Byron were also considered masters of the gothic horror poems. The modern figure of the femme fatale, which has its roots in romantic literature, is a key image for female goths.

In later years, the gothic horror novel was defined by Richard Matheson and Stephen King. Blackwood has shown some strong examples of gothic themes with his John Silence novels, and then with the short story The Windego. Lovecraft and Blackwood were what defined the gothic story in the early part of the 20th century, bridging the gap from Edgar Allan Poe to Stephen King. Stephen King's gothically-themed novels focus on putting ordinary people into horrific situations. Lovecraft's trademark is explaining the horror with scientific observations. Then in 1959, his protégé, Robert Bloch, penned the gothic horror classic, Psycho. Twentieth century gothic was defined more by the atmosphere in the genre than the dismal setting. Other examples remain in the works of August Derleth with the short story The Dark Boy.

Another author of importance to recognize, New Orleans native, Anne Rice, who wrote many novels of the fictional endevours of Vampires, Witches, and various other dark themed, underworld heroes. Her writings have become the basis for such movies as Interview with the Vampire, and the more recent Queen of the Damned, depicting a Gothic Vampire, who struggles with his eternity, and loneliness.

The word "gothic" in the literary sense is a broad term. It is hard to predict which direction it will take in the twenty-first century, but there is interest in many to adapt the old gothic influences and renew them. Gothic fiction before Edgar Allan Poe, Algernon Blackwood, and Lovecraft wasn't very frightening. There were authors who had gothic sensibilities during Edgar Allan Poe's time such as Charles Dickens with his ghost stories. Some authors in the gothic genre like to use erotic themes while other writers, such as Rod Serling, don't use an erotic undercurrent at all. Night Gallery, then later the novel by Macey Baggett Wuesthoff titled Sacrifice, are also considered to be gothic novels. Another example is Washington Irving's story The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Other examples of the 21st Century gothic stands strong with the vampire crime novel, Darkness Fears by Joseph Armstead and his Moon-Chosen series.

The themes from Stephen King's and H.P. Lovecraft's novels helped shape the sub culture of thrash and speed metal with the concepts in lyrical content. The aspects of the genre are alive and well, and have been taken into several different directions by various modern horror authors, seeing it evolve from what it was to what it is now.

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Cinema
The modern popular horror films play a crucial role in the goth scene and gothic literature. One of the earliest figures in cinematic goth is the silent movie actress Theda Bara. Definitive examples of the goth aesthetic in cinema during the silent era include The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, made by director Robert Wiene in 1919, and F.W. Murnau's 1922 film Nosferatu.

Imagery from horror films and television, especially the figure of the vampire and even camp horror B films such as Plan 9 From Outer Space have had significant influence on the evolution of gothic fashion.

Hammer Horror films and 1960s TV series, such as The Addams Family, The Munsters, and Ann Radcliffe, have also inspired goths. The interconnection between horror and goth was highlighted in its early days by The Hunger, a 1983 vampire film, starring David Bowie, which featured gothic rock group Bauhaus performing "Bela Lugosi's Dead" in a nightclub.

Some of the early gothic rock and death rock artists adopted traditional pre-sixties horror movie images and passed them onto their goth audiences. Such references in both their music and image were originally tongue-in-cheek, but as time went on, bands and members of the subculture took the connection more seriously. As a result, morbid, supernatural, and occult themes became a more noticeably serious element in the subculture.

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Goth after post-punk
After the demise of post punk, goth continued to evolve, both musically and visually. This caused variations in style ("types" of goth). Local scenes also contribute to this variation. By the 1990s, Victorian fashion saw a renewed popularity in the goth scene, with the mid-19th century gothic revival and the morbid outlook of the Victorians (partly owing to the state of national mourning which developed in response to Prince Albert's death, and partly to the Victorians' general obsession with Christian funeral practices). The 2003 Victoria and Albert Museum Gothic exhibition in London furthered a tenuous connection between modern goth and the medieval gothic period.

Some contemporary media popular among goths include Anne Rice's novels (The Vampire Chronicles), and notable movies such as The Crow and the movies of Tim Burton (Edward Scissorhands, The Nightmare Before Christmas, Beetlejuice, Sleepy Hollow, Corpse Bride, etc.), as well as role-playing games like Ravenloft and Vampire: The Masquerade. Cyberpunk, rave culture and anime have also influenced the goth scene, giving rise to cybergoth.

Over time, gothic culture has developed its own goth slang, with regional variations.

[edit]
Music
Main article: gothic rock
Since the late 1970s, the number of gothic or death rock bands were limited in number, and included bands such as The Cure, Bauhaus, Siouxsie & the Banshees, The Birthday Party, The Damned, and Joy Division. Many people credit Bauhaus' first single "Bela Lugosi's Dead", about the Hungarian actor who was famous for Dracula, with the start of the Gothic movement. By the mid-eighties, these bands began proliferating, including Sisters of Mercy, The Mission UK, Fields of the Nephilim, and This Mortal Coil. The nineties saw the further growth of eighties bands and emergence of many new bands, most of the North American examples being released by the Cleopatra label, such as Mephisto Waltz, Switchblade Symphony, London After Midnight, Christian Death, and Alien Sex Fiend. In the US, the subculture grew especially in New York and Los Angeles, with many nightclubs featuring gothic/industrial nights.

Since the mid-1990s, styles of music that can be heard in goth venues range from gothic music, industrial, EBM, synthpop, punk, metal, techno, 1980s dance music, and several others, although this does not represent a variety of music that is considered gothic mainstream, but rather a convention among DJ and nightclub owners to condense the number of nights devoted to any particular music venue.

Today, the scene is most active in Western Europe, especially Germany, with large festivals such as Wave-Gotik-Treffen, Zillo, M'era Luna and others drawing tens of thousands of fans from all over the world.

Bands such as Marilyn Manson, Type O Negative, Lacuna Coil and Cradle of Filth are labelled as "gothic" by the media, though goths refute this categorisation vehemently. The popularity of bands such as 4AD, music label artists This Mortal Coil, and Dead Can Dance resulted in the creation of a label called Projekt that produces what is colloquially termed Ethereal Goth or Darkwave. Bands which fall under the Darkwave category include Lycia, Project Pitchfork, Love Spirals Downwards, and Black Tape for a Blue Girl.

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Contemporary proliferation of the term Goth
In recent years, the word "goth" has often been used to describe a wider group of social people, sometimes people who should not be described as such. These might include people with a tendency to wear black clothes or wear goth-style make up. Often, those labelled as goths lack many of the characteristics historically associated with the subculture, and are more correctly called mallgoths in the US, gogans in Australia, spooky kids in the UK, and moshers or emos in Ireland, where a surprisingly large population of gothically inspired youths reside. Emos exist in other places as well as Ireland, and are a very different group of people. Many times, scene kids are mistaken for goths due to their tendency to have dyed black hair and wear black clothing. Many goths dislike being incorrectly lumped into the same category as some of these people. If it seems to an older goth that a particular youth exhibits potential for growth into a "true" goth later on, the more positive term "baby bat" is often used. Melbourne playwright Sai Ho is particularly vicious in his hatred of what he terms baby goths.

[edit]
Religious misconceptions
Beginning in the media, the label "goth" has been used to imply an unhealthy obsession with death, an association with Satanism, and other things which are often considered morbid. Another misconception is that the goth subculture as a whole represents a unified cult-like religion. Goths counter that these negative depictions of their subculture are generally untrue, and relate the accusations to those pointed at the punk scene and fans of metal. Many goths believe in open-mindedness and diversity, and aspire to "free themselves from the limitations" of traditional belief systems. "Goths" as individuals, represent many diverse beliefs in religion, as comparable to the collective society.

[edit]
Injustices
In countries such as the United States, many young goths in high school face opposition to their appearance and on occasion are mistakenly viewed as "threats" to safety and conformity. Many are accused of having morbid interests or mental problems, based solely on their appearance. This may be due to events such as the Columbine High School Massacre that was carried out by two troubled youths often inappropriately labled as part of the goth subculture.

In North America, many goths are discriminated against outside of high school as well. There have been incidents where goths have not been allowed to cross the border between Canada and the United States, and according to the local news, the individuals had no criminal records, and it was discrimination.

In New Brunswick, the RCMP have publically (To teachers in the Public School System) labeled The Goth subculture, along with one other subculture, to be gangs in New Brunswick. Specifically, they claimed "Goth" is the name of a gang which is regarded as the lowest of the gangs, heavily used and sold drugs, and are prone to use weapons in fights. On a side note, the other group of people they claimed to be a major dangerous gang in New Brunswick, with slightly different claims, were the "Woop Woops".

[edit]
Use in language
Goth can be used as a noun. e.g. "My best friend is a goth." Plurally, an S is added. e.g. "At the club there were many goths." Gothic, or goth, can be used as an adjective interchangably to describe someone, and in some cases, some thing. e.g. "She was wearing a gothic necklace." "He is goth." Gothic cannot be used as a noun, such as "I saw a gothic." Goth can't be used as a singular name for the group of people. "A member of goth"-for example, does not work because goth is not the name of an organized group or gang. To refer to the entire group of people using proper english, one would say "the goth subculture", or possibly "the gothic subculture".

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Stereotypes
Describing those with long hair and leather coats as "Goth" can be a misconception of the majority of society. See Industrial music.

Satanism seems to follow one who shares any similarities to being or associated with being "Goth." As with any other categorized groups of socially accepted people, the religious beliefs are diverse. Satanism being less than popular amongst the majority, as it is in modern society.

The perception that those categorized as "Goth" are generally either suicidal, or violent towards others, is a huge misunderstanding. (Source: Wikipedia.com)

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 1:06 pm 
Gondorian
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actually you mean a Goth not Gothic...a Goth is a person...Gothic...well...it's a ttly different thing...

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 1:12 pm 
Gondorian
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Here's a known fact...

80% of Goths are good
20% of Goths are bad

tell your uncle that

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 2:09 pm 
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*is overwhelmed by AA's VERY long post*
Uhmm... thank you very much... but also I wanted to hear your own opinions on Goth.. both you who claim to be and you who just sympatize.... and actually I'm more interested in what you think it is, rather what you think it is NOT! :angel:
Thanks!

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 2:29 pm 
Gondorian
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uh ok then Ea

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 3:56 pm 
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@Elf lady: Er...I dunno if it's different in other countries, but here in Germany Goth is also the shortform for Gothic. So Gothic is both the person AND the...*doesn't know the right word* er...How shall I call it? Scene? Style? Life? Community? Lifestyle?All these words somehow do not nearly describe what I mean... Grr..it's hard to explain with words...
@Eä: Okay, I'll have to think about that for a while, coz it's not THAT easy to explain... It might take some time to find the right words...

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 3:56 pm 
Mageling
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I'll join! I'm not exactly goth, but I'm evil :bones:

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 4:09 pm 
Ringwraith
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Hey LDM!!!*waves* Nice to see another Nazgûl here :-)

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 4:10 pm 
Mageling
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Elf Lady wrote:
Here's a known fact...

80% of Goths are good
20% of Goths are bad

tell your uncle that


that is interesting. most people who are goth just pretend they're goth.

*waves back at Arwen*

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 4:15 pm 
Ringwraith
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How can one pretend to be a goth? I mean...you can misunderstand the term, but.... Why should anyone pretend to be someone who is usually misunderstood by many ppl?

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 4:35 pm 
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I'll Join :)

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 4:47 pm 
Ringwraith
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Ferthu Galasriniel hàl! Welcome! * bows*

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 5:00 pm 
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Arwen Arianna wrote:
@Eä: Okay, I'll have to think about that for a while, coz it's not THAT easy to explain... It might take some time to find the right words...

Thanks, I'll be looking forward to it!
What I mean is people always try to describe and label everything but to really understand something you need to ask the people who live it and is it, to hear their opinions on their life style!
And I never met any Goth people so....

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 6:23 pm 
Gondorian
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Welcome new members!!!

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 8:45 pm 
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I'll try my best in my own words.

For me..a Goth is someone who listens to Goth music. Couple of examples would be Sisters of Mercy, The Mission and Fields of the Nephilim. I had a few friends when I was a lot, younger (about 15/16) that were completely into that scene. I like some of the music (Sisters mainly), but I would definetly NOT categorise myself as Goth. Although people have labelled me as such. No biggy. Not that it's an insult or anything.

What I think isn't?

Marilyn Manson, Green Day (no offense EL), Slipknot, MCR, Atreyu, Evanescence..these bands get lumped in with Goth by mainly outsiders and the term seems to have somehow stuck.

Simply wearing black clothing, dying your hair black, ect also does NOT make one a Goth. It is somehow difficult to explain, but there is more to it than that.

Or maybe I'm just a crotchety old fart that still lives in the past.
:duh:

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2005, 11:55 pm 
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Here I am.
I love horror and dark movies and books.

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