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| The Last Ship to Sail from Middle Earth? http://arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13844 |
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| Author: | Nessmister of the Rings [ January 31st, 2007, 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The Last Ship to Sail from Middle Earth? |
this is the closest forum i could find to post this in and this is a serious question for people more learned than me - When Frodo and Bilbo are given a place on the elven ship sail from middle earth, it is said to be the last to sail from Middle earth- hence Galadriel and Elrond are on it - but later on i read that Legolas at last followed the desire of his heart after King Elessar had died and sailed over the sea into the west with Gimli. How could the one Frodo went on be the last if Legolas sailed with Gimli into the west all those years later???? Is it the last elven ship to sail from middle earth or not?? |
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| Author: | ... [ January 31st, 2007, 4:24 pm ] |
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I think that in the book Tolkien doesn't say that the last ship is the one where Frodo boarded, I think that you heard it in the movie. |
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| Author: | Eä [ January 31st, 2007, 6:15 pm ] |
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No actually Tolkien didn't refer to it as the last Elven ship in the books. Elrond, among others, sailed into the West with another ship as far as I remember. The way Legolas and Gimli came to the Undying Lands is a different story though. Legolas built a boat/ship to take both of them over the sea, so it wasn't an "official departure". The were both granted a safe passage by the Valar, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to leave the circles of the world and find their way. 
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| Author: | Aerandir [ February 1st, 2007, 3:03 am ] |
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The ship that took Galadriel, Elrond, Gandalf, and Frodo over the Sea was the last one to leave that carried High Elves on it--the last of the Noldor left on it (in RotK, Tolkien says most of them left on it, but I think it's in The Unfinished Tales that he says they all left on that ship, those few that were left. But I don't think it was the last ship. It might have been the last one to carry Noldor, but I'm sure there would still be Silvan and Sindarin elves who would sail over the sea. |
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| Author: | Eä [ February 1st, 2007, 1:35 pm ] |
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Hmm.... did Círdan leave on the ship? I'm not sure if Tolkien mentions it. But if he did so, it could be considered the last Elven ship to leave Middle-earth, since he was the lord of the Grey Havens. Actually, I've thought of it.. the last Elven ship.. more poetically. Like a metaphor for the elves leaving Middle-earth because of the age of men, more than an exact ship that was said to be the very last. |
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| Author: | Aerandir [ February 16th, 2007, 7:04 am ] |
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Eä wrote: Hmm.... did Círdan leave on the ship? I'm not sure if Tolkien mentions it. But if he did so, it could be considered the last Elven ship to leave Middle-earth, since he was the lord of the Grey Havens.
Actually, I've thought of it.. the last Elven ship.. more poetically. Like a metaphor for the elves leaving Middle-earth because of the age of men, more than an exact ship that was said to be the very last. Yeah, Círdan did leave on that ship, at least as far as I remember it. I'm pretty sure it was the last ship to leave from the Grey Havens, though. |
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| Author: | Eruhin [ February 17th, 2007, 11:01 am ] |
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Aerandir wrote: I'm pretty sure it was the last ship to leave from the Grey Havens, though.
And what about Legolas and Gimli? By the way I think it was the last ship because no one knew how to build a ship after Cirdan left. Couldn't that be possible? |
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| Author: | Eä [ February 17th, 2007, 11:13 am ] |
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^I'm not sure this is what you are asking, but Legolas and Gimli built their own ship, so they didn't have to have Cirdan to build it for them. I don't know where they left from, but it could be the Grey Havens since it is situated on the Western shore of Middle-earth, relatively close to the Undying Lands. But yes, it sounds reasonable that there wouldn't be built more Elven ships after Cirdan left because he was the shipwright. 
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| Author: | Aerandir [ February 17th, 2007, 11:17 am ] |
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no, I don't think so. Legolas obviously knew how to build one, since he built the one that he and Gimli sailed in. But who said they had to sail from the Grey Havens? There were other places to do it, after all. |
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| Author: | Eä [ February 17th, 2007, 11:24 am ] |
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True, Legolas obviously knew how to patch together a dinghy.. (for some reason I always pictured Gimli and Legolas in something like a dinghy paddling across the great sea, lol), but there must lie much knowledge behind building the great Elven ships Cirdan built. And yes, they might have left Middle-earth from anywhere, but I'd wtill argue it would be wise to leave from a Western shore!! 
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| Author: | Aerandir [ February 17th, 2007, 11:47 am ] |
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yeah, but that doesn't mean they had to go from the Grey Havens, so I think that Cirdan's ship was still the last one from there. Lol--the thought of Legolas and Gimli in a dinghy is hilarious. |
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| Author: | mephiston, lord of death [ February 18th, 2007, 3:41 pm ] |
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Eä wrote: True, Legolas obviously knew how to patch together a dinghy.. (for some reason I always pictured Gimli and Legolas in something like a dinghy paddling across the great sea, lol), but there must lie much knowledge behind building the great Elven ships Cirdan built.
And yes, they might have left Middle-earth from anywhere, but I'd wtill argue it would be wise to leave from a Western shore!! over athousand or so years Legolas will have learned to build ships toa degree having probs had delings with the lake men and using ships to go there maybe. Also, There will have been elves who could build ships after maybe but as u sed, like dinghys. I spose as sum1 sed , it was ht elast ship of th enoldor and the end of their tale in middle earth. |
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| Author: | Princess of Ithilien [ February 18th, 2007, 7:36 pm ] |
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See, I always got the impression that "Legolas and Gimli sailed across the sea" was refering to the Sea of <i>Rhun</i>. 
I dunno why. I think "last ship across the sea" was drummed into my head by then. |
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| Author: | Aerandir [ February 19th, 2007, 1:20 pm ] |
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Lol, PoI--what would they gain by that?  
That's really funny. |
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| Author: | Darrell [ February 19th, 2007, 5:26 pm ] |
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Well, several errors have been made in this thread  Firstly, Cirdan was not upon the ship bearing Frodo, Gandalf and co. He stayed until (and I think this is a quote, though I get it from memory) 'the last ship sails'. And whilst Frodo's ship may have been the last containing Noldor (I find that hard to beleive) it certainly wasn't the last to leave the shores of middle-earth.
And Legolas's ship left down the Anduin (probably from Pelargir) made of wood from trees of Ithilien. I'm sure that is what it says in the appendices of the Lord of the Rings. (if I think of anything else relevant, then I'll post it )
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| Author: | Eä [ February 20th, 2007, 3:06 pm ] |
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Hmmm.. interesting. I was randomly browsing Encyclopedia of Arda and found something about the White Ship. According to that site Círdan had prepared the ship to carry the Ring-bearers over the sea. Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf, Frodo and Bilbo. So the reference to the 'last ship' might be a poetic term from the movie. A Wandering Dark. Do you remember where you read that Círdan was not onboard the White Ship? It sounds reasonable.
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