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 Post subject: Black breath and emtional problems?
PostPosted: April 5th, 2007, 11:38 am 
Istari
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In the book the Lord of the Rings the Return of the King the chapter tittled Houses of Healing on pages 143 and 146 it speaks of both the Black Breath and emotional pains in refernece to two characters. It says on page 143 in reference to Faramir... "...Weariness, grief for his father's mood, a wound, and over all the Black Breath, said Aragorn. "He is a man of staunch will, for allready he had come close under the Shadow before ever he rode to battle on the out walls. Slowly the dark must have have crept on him, even as he fought and strove to hold his outpost..." Then on page 146 it says this in reference to Eowyn..."I have, maybe the power to heal her body, and to recall her from the dark valley. But to what she will awake:hope, or forgetfulness, or despair, I do not know. And if to despair, then she will die, unless other healing comes which I cannot bring...."
Now this is my first time reading the books and those two parts I just don't understand...especialy the part in reference to Faramir. :confused: Is it saying that it was alot of things that caused Eowyn and Faramir to be ill? Would Eowyn and Faramir have been in deathly peril had it just had been the emotional problems? Was it partialy due to the emotional problems that they would not awake before Aragorn (and Eomer for Eowyn) called them? Was Aragorn saying (in reference to Eowyn) that the Black Breath would eventualy over come her if she had nothing but despair or was he just saying that she would take her own life or that she would be alive but not really living if she had nothing but despair when she awoke? Then the question that puzzles me the most how had Faamir become ill of the Black Breath (I thought that it was caused by the Witch King but as far as I know he never came in contact with him, right)? Oh, I think that my head is going to explode. Could somebody please try to explain this to me, please? (gets down and hands and knees) Please?
Oh, and if you have anything to add to the discussion concerning anything about Eowyn/Faramir's emotion problems or something to do with the Black Breath you could also put that here.

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PostPosted: April 5th, 2007, 1:34 pm 
Vala
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Well, I don't think that their emotional problems would have killed them on their own. However, I do think that what they basically did is made them far more susceptible to the Black Breath than they would have been otherwise.

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PostPosted: April 5th, 2007, 3:29 pm 
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I think the black breath fell on Faramir when he was in Osgiliath and obviously came close to a Nazgûl. That must have been enough to make him sick. And what Aerandir said seems plausible, too.

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PostPosted: April 5th, 2007, 3:48 pm 
Istari
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Aerandir and Eruhin, So it was like Faramir became ill due to coming in close contact with a Nazul in Osgiliath and Eowyn and Faramir's emotional troubles just made it easier for them to catch it more suscepitable...without actualy causing it? Law, the simpliest of things confuses me. lol Well it makes much more sense now though. Thank you for explaining. (hands out cookies for helping to explain it to me) :-D
Do you think that Faramir would have died if he had been told in full the story of what happened to Denthor when he first awoke? Do you think that Eowyn would have died had Eomor not been there to call her?

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PostPosted: April 5th, 2007, 3:55 pm 
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*eat cookie :-D *
thanx. 'twas very tasty!
I don't think Faramir would have died and Eowyn... well Maybe. We will nerver know for sure :)

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PostPosted: April 5th, 2007, 4:28 pm 
Vala
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Yes, that's exactly what I was meaning, DD. Thanks for the cookie. :D

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PostPosted: April 6th, 2007, 12:56 am 
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Have any of you seen Star Wars Episode III, Revenge of the Sith? Do you remember how Padme hadn't the will to live, so she didn't? That's how I picture it. Eowyn and Farimir were under much emotional turmoil. Farimir's father basically made him feel worthless, and Eowyn figured that in order to get glory and honor she had to die on a battle field. And to top it all off they were poisoned with the black breath. So I think Aragorn was simply stating that they may not have the will to live. Personally, I don't know how Farimir got the black breath, probably from Osgilliath. But I think because of their emotional problems they were easier victims. Both, in a way, wanted to die. I probably made no sense, but *shrugs* there you go!

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PostPosted: April 7th, 2007, 6:53 am 
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I have seen the movie and it seems logical to me. That's what we thought, too. :-D

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PostPosted: April 9th, 2007, 1:42 pm 
Vala
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Faramir was exposed to the Black Breath during the retreat from Osgiliath, silfa.

Your point did make sense, just so you know. :)

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PostPosted: April 13th, 2007, 6:18 pm 
Istari
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Aerandir wrote:
Well, I don't think that their emotional problems would have killed them on their own. However, I do think that what they basically did is made them far more susceptible to the Black Breath than they would have been otherwise.


I agree with this, but also I believe Faramir was struck by a southron dart, which tended to be poisoned. Faramir would have suffered both the poison in the dart and have suffered from emotional problems. I think that as well as making its own brand of damage, the Black Breath may have amplified these problems as well, making it seem REALLY worse than it was.
also the thing about Eowyn is that shes sorta like a bloke trapped in a girls body. This becomes apparent after she gives up on aragorn, she seeks an honourable doom in battle. But she cant, because of who she is, she must wait for the end of the war and tend to those who have gone, and she cant seen to find peace. Faramir is rejected by his father because he reminds denethor too much of Finduillas, his late wife. This makes Faramir want his father to accept him, and it drives him mad trying to do so, in that to earn his fathers love he will do the most suicidal thing going.

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PostPosted: April 24th, 2007, 2:14 am 
Vala
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Well, yeah, Faramir was hit by a Southron arrow, but I don't recall any passage in the book where it says that they were normally poisoned. I don't specifically recall whether or not the one that hit Faramir was, but I don't think their arrows were normally poisoned.

But still, the root of what you're saying is correct, at least as far as I see it. The Black Breath did amplify their problems, but their problems made them more susceptible to it, since their wills were already weakened. Faramir had basically given up the will to live since his father showed no love for him, and Éowyn wasn't much better.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: August 26th, 2007, 4:35 pm 
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I like to think of this Black Breath as something that feeds on despair and sadness. The idea is that their [Faramir and Eowyn's] emotional pains would only make this Black Breath worse. I think of it as a connection to Saruman almost. It corrodes the heart and mind against happiness and other such emotions. Although, unlike the Ring I do not think it has the capability to change the person on the outside, except perhaps in their moods.


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PostPosted: August 27th, 2007, 1:44 pm 
Vala
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You know, it makes me feel good to be paraphrased. :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 17th, 2007, 10:05 pm 
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Lol. I didn't mean to paraphrase you, although great minds do think alike, so I can see how it happened. ;)


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PostPosted: September 19th, 2007, 11:08 am 
Vala
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Lol. Great minds? I don't know that I'm quite that intellectual, but still, I can survive the compliment. :P

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PostPosted: December 3rd, 2007, 5:16 pm 
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"But to what she will awake:hope, or forgetfulness, or despair, I do not know. And if to despair, then she will die, unless other healing comes which I cannot bring...."
When he says, "other healing" I am certain he is referring to love - the love of Faramir.

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