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PostPosted: April 23rd, 2006, 5:03 pm 
Gondorian
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I'm getting even more confused... when did Arwen get mortal?

i thought it meant that she was going to live with mortals or something... :confused:

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PostPosted: April 26th, 2006, 3:41 am 
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I (This is my opinion) think that Arwen wanted to be like Aragorn and wanted to DIE like him too, she could have left but chose not to because she would be leaving her dead husband behind.

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PostPosted: April 27th, 2006, 5:17 pm 
Teh Ladybird Fwee Queen
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Well, here's what I know, for a fact.

- Arwen stayed with Aragorn and became mortal because of it.

- She didn't go to the undying lands because hse gave her place to Frodo, she said, "A gift I will give you. For I am the daughter of Elrond. I shall not go with him now when he departs to the Havens; for mine is the choice of Luthien, and as she so I have chosen, both the sweet and the bitter. But in my stead you will go Ring-bearer, when the time comes, and if you then desire it." After that she gave him, "A white gem like a star that lay upon her breast hanging on a silver chain, and she set the chain abut Frodo's neck, "When the memory of th fear of the darkness troubles you," She said, "This will bring you aid."
Therefore she could not go to the Grey Havens because she gave her place to Frodo. (Quotes from RotK book.)

- She died in Lorien and was burried on the hill of Cerin Amroth, she same hill that she and Aragorn pledged their love for one and other.

I hope that helps, if not, sorry. :blush:

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PostPosted: April 30th, 2006, 9:20 am 
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I think Arwen didnt sail because she was grevious and heart-broken. She wanted the same destiny as Aragorn had to face. Yeah, and she would've lingered in her grieve for ever and ever in the undying lands... sad.

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PostPosted: May 3rd, 2006, 4:22 pm 
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Technically, she chose out of her own free will to stay in Middle Earth. During the last few years of the Third age, she was desiding to either stay with her husband or to go to the Undying lands. So, it was not that she chose between a mortal and immortal life, but it was just mir love.

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PostPosted: June 5th, 2006, 3:29 pm 
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Okay we've made our point, right? Arwen chose to stay with Aragorn because she was deeply in love with him. So, she didn't sail to the Undying Lands. Any questions anyone?

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PostPosted: June 5th, 2006, 8:03 pm 
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According a kind of rule set by the Valar if you are half-elven you have the chance to choose between mortality and immortality. Once you have chosen you can not change back.

So, when Arwen chose a mortal life she pretty much gave up her non-refundable, one time only, ticket on the boat to the Undying Lands.


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 Post subject: a breathtaking view!
PostPosted: June 11th, 2006, 6:56 pm 
Gondorian
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As I have commented on in another thread, Arwen gives us a breathtaking example of what love really is. Not only did she give up her family but she chose the crushing death of a broken heart in exchange for Aragorn's love and her immortality! But what would love have been to them if she had not? Even if she could have potentially lived with Aragorn for all his life, and then elected to, as Aragorn says, "repent and go to the Havens" (Tolkien 1037), what would that say about their love? Aragorn would have never been more than a distraction—an experiment to while away just a fraction of her spectacular lifespan. The extent of her love for him shines bright only in the face of what she gives up.

But did she give up as much as it seems? What is life without true love? It is not the quantity of either that really matters, it is the quality.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: June 20th, 2006, 7:33 pm 


Arwen did not Sail over becuz She wanted to stay with Aragorn and she did not care that she would become Immortal

not all Elves have to sail over to the Havens


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PostPosted: June 20th, 2006, 8:46 pm 
Gondorian
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Lady Eowyn wrote:
...not all Elves have to sail over to the Havens


I guess Arwen pretty much proved that didn't she?

I love your animation...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: June 21st, 2006, 5:15 am 


There is something I feel I have to clear up before I put my opinion on this subject. Arwen was not Half-elven!!!!! Her mother was an Elf, and her father was an Elf by choice. Therefore, Arwen was a FULL BLOODED ELF. *breathes deeply* Sorry about that :(

Another thing is that Arwen did not choose to be mortal. As such. She chose to stay with Aragorn. After he died she could have sailed for Valinor should she have so desired. However, her love of him was so great that when he died her grief was so great that she let it kill her. It sounds really harsh when I put it like that, but that is essentially what happened.

As said by a couple of people above me she had the choice to retain her immortality and go to the havens once Aragorn died, but she loved him greatly and did not want to betray his memory like that. She laid herself down on Cerin Amroth and died there.

I would also like to quote a reliable source here to back my view up ( :) )
[The encyclopedia of Arda, as normal]
Quote:
Both Elves and Men are the Children of Ilúvatar, and so have much in common, but there are also great differences between the two peoples. Of these, the most significant is that Elves are 'immortal', at least while the World lasts; they do not suffer ageing or disease, and if they are slain or wither with grief, they are reincarnated in the Halls of Mandos in Valinor.
This states that elves can be killed by grief, which is what happened to Arwen. She did not become 'mortal' in the sense that men are, but she died in a 'normal' elvish way.

Hope that all made sense to you. if not, I'll try and clarify it for you :D


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 Post subject: In the way true love does.
PostPosted: June 22nd, 2006, 5:50 am 
Gondorian
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I really appreciate your post Darrell. As I think about what you said it seems that upon Aragorn's death, Arwen didn't decide to do anything so much as she just responded the way that true love does. It was only a natural progression of the decision she had made years before. I didn't see that before. Thanks.

I have seen it again and again, both with friends and *blushes* in my fishtank. When I have a pair of fish for years and one dies, it is only a matter of days until the other is dead. It has often been the same with my elderly friends.

Like you said so well, this is essentially what happens. It is not new to our experience here on this planet.

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PostPosted: June 30th, 2006, 9:28 am 
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What does it matter if she was half elven.... she died in the end!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: June 30th, 2006, 3:43 pm 
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Ah, but Arwen was not half-Elven as Darrell so kindly pointed out. Her father, Elrond, had the choice of being Elven or mortal not her. He choose to be Elven and marry another Elf. So, Arwen is a pure Elf.


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PostPosted: July 15th, 2006, 4:34 pm 
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beacuse she is married to aragorn and because she chose a mortal life

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 Post subject: What is death?
PostPosted: July 15th, 2006, 5:02 pm 
Gondorian
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Don't you find it interesting that immortal beings like elves can still die? I guess the questions are: What is death? And: What happens after we die?

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