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PostPosted: July 15th, 2006, 5:04 pm 
Ringwraith
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The whole story of Arwen being full-elven is a hard topic to explain to most people. However, as Darrell and Sinbearer have kindly stated and sourced correctly, Arwen was and always will be full elven. Yet the question still haunts my thoughts. Was Arwen Undomiel reincarnated because she died 'a normal death' in terms of the elves stated by Darrell?


But on the choice of staying in Middle Earth, it was as said earlier. Yes she had the choice to stay and loose immortality, however, for love of family she headed to the Haven. However, on her way, she was reminded by love. Love overpowered her and overcame the will of her family and soon became the will of herself. She had the choice and she claimed that she would live with Aragorn. Eternal Love! Thats why my question above is legitament. Because she died of Grief....was she in fact reincarnated?

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 Post subject: I don't know...
PostPosted: July 15th, 2006, 8:30 pm 
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Telpeath wrote:
Because she died of Grief....was she in fact reincarnated?


That is a question I have studied but not found a difinitive answer to. I would welcome an explanation from those of you who have studied and thought more about this and have greater understanding.

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PostPosted: July 15th, 2006, 11:17 pm 
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Yes, can any help with the question. I will try looking through some resources of mine, and see what I can figure out. But all explinations would be most appreciated.

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PostPosted: July 18th, 2006, 8:23 am 


I believe that she would be reincarnated in the Halls of Mandos as all elves are if they die.

Here I will use the tale of Beren and Luthien to help illustrate. Those familiar with the story will know that Beren died of wounds in a fight with Carcharoth. And this caused Luthien to die of grief, the same fashion that Arwen died long after. Luthien was then reincarnated in the Halls of Mandos where she pleaded with him, and was granted to return to middle-earth for a mortal life with Beren.

Using this case we can assume that the same happened to Arwen, in as far as her spirit was summoned to the Halls of Mandos till the End of the World.

Quote:
Although, unlike Men, the Elves must remain in the world until its ending, they are not bound to Middle-earth. They may if they wish take the straight road, and sail into the Uttermost West, a road that is barred to mortals.


This we can use to mean that even after death, elves must stay with the world to its end.

Hope that deals with your question Telpeath. And if anyone thinks I am wrong, feel free to correct me


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PostPosted: July 18th, 2006, 10:43 am 
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Thank you for that explanation. You have, once again, muttered words that echo wisdom through the halls of knowledge (Good Job in other words). So she was in fact reincarnated.

(whispers)Yes, now my plans to bewed Arwen are almost complete! One day she will be mine(end whisper)

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PostPosted: July 19th, 2006, 4:36 am 


No problem. Though you have to remember that it is only a theory. Nowhere did Tolkien say that is what happened to her. Still, it seems highly likely that that is what happened.

*whisper* not if she's mine first :D *end whisper*


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PostPosted: July 19th, 2006, 11:59 am 
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Well, to be honest, Tolken left out alot in his books. I think this was to make us guess, keeping readers reading the books.

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PostPosted: July 20th, 2006, 5:31 pm 
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I would think that because Arwen gave up her immortal life to live with Aragorn, she would afterwards be subject to the rules and the fate Mandos decided for Men long ago.. which is unknown to us. :angel:

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Last edited by on July 21st, 2006, 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: July 21st, 2006, 7:14 am 
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*coughcough* Umm guys, it is but a shadow and a thought that you love.
I'm sorry to drag you back to reality.

Darrell wrote:
I believe that she would be reincarnated in the Halls of Mandos as all elves are if they die.

But Arwen does give up her immortal life and with that the privileges that follow her Elven kin. I think she would go where mortal souls go after death.
Also it is said that the elves grieved the more for Lúthien because when she gave up her immortality she was forever lost to her kin.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: July 21st, 2006, 9:16 am 


Eä wrote:
*coughcough* Umm guys, it is but a shadow and a thought that you love.
I'm sorry to drag you back to reality.


hehehehe, love teh quote^^ And sorry, got a bit carried away there.

Eä wrote:
Darrell wrote:
I believe that she would be reincarnated in the Halls of Mandos as all elves are if they die.

But Arwen does give up her immortal life and with that the privileges that follow her Elven kin. I think she would go where mortal souls go after death.
Also it is said that the elves grieved the more for Lúthien because when she gave up her immortality she was forever lost to her kin.


Luthien was different in that she had already been to the Halls of Mandos. You could say that when she returned, she was human, and therefore went where the dead humans go (I've never been entirely clear where that is) Arwen never did such a thing, and was technically still elven when she died. Therefore it makes sense that she went where the elves go when they die.

You say that Luthien was grieved for more because she was lost forever to her kin. So you could take that to mean that Arwen was not, and that she went to the Halls of Mandos.


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PostPosted: July 21st, 2006, 1:40 pm 
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I guess you are right about Lúthien there, and her story is different from Arwen's. But don't use my own words against me, not fair, lol :erm:
But we never know whether Arwen was grieved for as much as Lúthien... she probably was especially among her close family... er... Alright, I admit, I lost that argument...

However, as I see it, it comes down to how much of the Elven spirit and soul is affected by the immortality... or what else will seperate elves from other races... (alright I'd better stop here asI'm about to loose another argument... how come it all makes so much more sense in my head, lol)

Well in fact I'm not a fan of the whole reincarnation story of the elves at all, so this might also influence my opinion, but I can't base my points on that...

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PostPosted: July 21st, 2006, 4:23 pm 
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Why are you against it? Dont worry, we support your desision. I just want to know why?

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PostPosted: July 24th, 2006, 5:54 am 
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It's all so sad


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PostPosted: July 26th, 2006, 8:51 pm 
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I still dont know? *Confuzzled*

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: July 27th, 2006, 4:18 am 


What don't you know Telpeath?


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PostPosted: July 29th, 2006, 6:25 am 
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I wondered what would have happened if Arwen did sail over, abandoning aragorn. (Of course I know this didn't happen and Arwen is supposed to be with Aragorn but I was still curious)

I think Aragorn would never have claimed the throne of Gondor and would have dwelled in grief just like Arwen did after his death..

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