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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: December 29th, 2017, 1:09 am 
Gondorian
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Do you guys think that being on the light or dark side of the force determines whether you are good or bad?

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: December 29th, 2017, 3:12 am 
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Héalic wrote:
Do you guys think that being on the light or dark side of the force determines whether you are good or bad?


I don't think it's that arbitrary if you take in the cannon beyond the film episodes (cartoons, books, comics etc). Through those, we find characters that are Jedi but do questionable things, and characters that are Sith that are occasionally kind or generous (in an altruistic sense rather than a quid pro quo).

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: December 30th, 2017, 10:35 am 
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Héalic wrote:
Do you guys think that being on the light or dark side of the force determines whether you are good or bad?


Not at all. I think you can just as easily just be misguided, manipulated, or similar to be on let's say the dark side. Meaning you're not necessary bad at all, but have ended up there through events out of your control and have made a choice based on that and not on who you actually are inside. Besides, I think there are very few people who are completely bad or good. We're all capable of both, I believe, it's just that some manage to not stray as far as others.

Let's face it, in this movie, Luke was considering for a moment - however brief - that it would be better to kill his own nephew rather than risk him turning to the dark side. Ironically, a move that proved to be the last straw for Ben before he turned into Kylo...

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: January 1st, 2018, 3:19 am 
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The Kylo Ren challenge - because who doesn't like high waisted pants?

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-kylorenchallenge-is-the-natural-evolution-of-the-l-1821681648?IR=T

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: January 3rd, 2018, 2:19 am 
Warden of the Knight
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Héalic wrote:
Do you guys think that being on the light or dark side of the force determines whether you are good or bad?


Even I'm the original trilogy we see Luke use force choke on one of Jabba's Gamorian guards. This is thought of as a dark side power, yet Luke was not evil.

Also, if you follow the Jedi Academy story line, (which now takes some serious morphing to fit with the movies) we not only see Luke using so called, "dark side powers" but your character in the game is able to learn many dark side powers and they do not turn you towards the dark side not alter your force alignment.

Same with the KOTOR storyline. You can learn and use abilities like force choke and lightning, but it does not effect your force alignment.

Taking this even further, The Old Republic Online allows you to BE a sith and yet have a lightside alignment, and the same in reverse. So we see lots of Jedi doing "sith" type things and several sith doing good. It is one of the very interesting Dynamics of the game.

So, all in all, I think good and bad would be determined by the choices one makes, regardless of what faction they identify themselves with. During Palpatine's rule, there were several who served the Empire sincerely, because they sincerely felt that the right thing to do was try and fight the wrong through the system and in the Senate, etc... They believed in the same things as the Rebels, they just didn't feel like killing or defecting and starting war was the right way to bring about change.

So all in all, their intentions were good, despite them siding with the "bad" faction.

Anywho.... I'll stop now.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: January 4th, 2018, 2:54 am 
Gondorian
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So theoretically, Kylo Ren could stay alive and just be a "good sith", so to speak. I like the idea of both of them not dying and just keeping the balance in the force instead of constantly battling it out. Seeing as star wars is based on Eastern pantheism, that would be a logical ending to the saga.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: January 4th, 2018, 10:53 pm 
Warden of the Knight
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I wouldn't mind that as an ending either, honestly. I understand the "balance" of the force, but I wish Disney would not have emphasized it quite so much. It creates a setting g where neither side can gain or loose ground because balance will counter any gain or loss by either side. So basically it leaves them in a perpetual deadlock. I'm not fond of that idea in an extreme way.

The original trilogy had that same idea, but less stringent. Anakin brought balance, truly. For years the Jedi ruled and the sith hid in the shadows. There were many in the Jedi and only two sith. Then Anakin comes and destroys the Jedi and there remains two sith and two Jedi while the Sith rule for years and the Jedi hide in the shadows.

So ultimately there is balance, but each side shares it in separate time periods so there is progression, plot, change etc.... Now, with eppisodes 7 and 8 it would seem like the two sides are equal and will remain so.

If Kylo and Rey just battle it out yet neither is strong enough to defeat the other, there is simply not enough plot (or point) to the final movie.

If, however, (as you say) Kylo Wren becomes a "good sith" and perhaps Rey becomes a little darker? This could create a very interesting dynamic that has not previously been explored. Kylo would still be a sith, but lean towards more lightside tendencies, just not enough to turn him. (We already see this struggle in him) Rey, then may turn towards darker tendencies in order to achieve what she feels she must. Again, we already see that possibility from TLJ. So, I think that could actually be a neat option.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: January 15th, 2018, 1:08 am 
Gondorian
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Ok,I don't know about the rest of you, but I think it would be really cool to see Rey as a sith. What do you guys think?

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: January 15th, 2018, 5:53 pm 
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I'm kinda hoping that they don't go down that arbitrary good/bad; black/white path myself.

It's a bit simplistic and it's been done so many times before. Rey is a such a good character I'd like to see something more interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: January 16th, 2018, 12:08 am 
Warden of the Knight
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At this point I think I would be cool with whatever. Rey's story is open ended and has no connection to any other established lore so far as we know. So either way, I would be good.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: January 16th, 2018, 2:52 am 
Vala
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I don't know. I think Rey's shown where her loyalties lie. Sure, she has also had some temptation, but to me it's clear that she'll not stray from the light side.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: January 16th, 2018, 3:24 pm 
Gondorian
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She's kind of an angry Jedi though. No other Jedi has yelled in anger during a fight. She'd be a pretty boss sith, though. IDK, maybe things are fine the way they are and hux becomes the real villain instead of Kylo.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: January 16th, 2018, 11:54 pm 
Warden of the Knight
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Rey would make a pretty sith, as weird as that is. Lol It would be interesting to see how they went about giving her a "sith look."

As far as Hux goes, I can't really see him becoming the main villain. I mean, if they had given him more of a Tarkin persona, yeah... But as it stands he seems hardly more mature than Kylo.

I am honestly not entirely convinced that Snoke is dead... But that could be a far fetched idea.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: January 17th, 2018, 12:48 pm 
Gondorian
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Also, something I've been wondering about. Are the praetorian guards the knights of Ren? I just sort of assumed that's who they were, but others seem to have differing opinions.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: January 18th, 2018, 12:20 am 
Warden of the Knight
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Hm.... I never actually considered that. That would make sense, but why did they not use any force abilities.

I have a theory about them, or rather a theory about Snoke because of them. I think Snoke is the Emperor. The only place we ever see guards all dressed in red in the entire star wars timeline (that I am aware of) is around Palpatine. Further more, we see them as his guards before he even becomes emperor.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS ALLOWED!!!!!]
PostPosted: January 20th, 2018, 12:28 am 
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Héalic wrote:
Also, something I've been wondering about. Are the praetorian guards the knights of Ren? I just sort of assumed that's who they were, but others seem to have differing opinions.


So Rian Johnson is pretty clear here that the Praetorian Guards are not the Knights of Ren. We see them briefly, in the flash back to Ben Solo's rebellion against Luke Skywalker. The Knights of Ren are likely to show up now that Kylo Ren is ostentensibly the Big Bad now.

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