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Post subject:  Posted: October 9th, 2007, 4:38 pm |
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*nodnod*
The same struggle as Harry goes through. He decides which path to thread, he could have been placed in Slytherin, but his choices sent him to Griffindor. He has many of the same doubts as Tom Riddle but his decisions and actions determine what kind of person he becomes. I like Rowling's message on how we all shape our own lives through our choices.
Well, Tolkien died before he ended his life work, and I don't think Rowling thought of every single detail of her work, it might or might not be intentional. But well... everything is up for interpretation, really... I think there are as many opinions on it as there are readers!
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Post subject: Posted: October 9th, 2007, 10:27 pm |
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Most definitely!  Actually, now that we're on the topic of choices, I wanted to bring up the fact that Harry, Snape, and Voldemort had very similar lives. They grew up in households where they were oppressed, 2 out of 3 had obvious enemies at school, all became great wizards [yes, Harry was great!], and they all called Hogwarts "home", yet all of their paths, though they have similarities, wind in many different ways. *shakes head* It's such an intriguing parallel to me!
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Post subject: Posted: October 15th, 2007, 8:54 am |
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Sorry I havn't been aroung RL is crazy right now...
HOwever, Back to the topic
That is kinda weird....how their lives parallel like that. *shrugs* I never really thought about that...but it's also unique and how their lives seem so similar and yet they loathe one another so much, despite their similarities.....weird huh?
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Post subject: Posted: October 16th, 2007, 5:32 pm |
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I believe the reason why they loathe one another is because of their different choices in life and because of the people they attract. Harry has got friends who respect and love him and it gives him the motivation to love and respect in return.
Voldemort wasn't able to show love in the same way, so people got repelled by his attitude and behavior.
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Post subject: Posted: October 20th, 2007, 10:26 pm |
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Exactly, which is even more fascinating, because if JKR hadn't made those character the way they are then Harry could've turned out to be Voldemort or Snape could've been in James' place.
By the way, as many of you know JKR is doing a book tour of the US right now and she's been talking about DH. Get ready to be slightly shocked. This is a direct quote from Mugglenet on a few things she had to say --
Quote: The most notable news of the night was the revelation of Dumbledore's sexuality. Jo says Dumbledore was gay and in love with Gellert Grindelwald. JK, in response to the audience's reaction, said "If I had known this would have made you so happy, I would have told you years ago."
Not quite as head-turning, but equally significant, Jo announced Neville Longbottom's marriage with Hannah Abbott. Hannah became the new landlady of the Leaky Cauldron.
Wow. That's all I have to say.  Didn't see that coming at all.
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Post subject: Posted: October 20th, 2007, 11:44 pm |
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Post subject: Posted: October 21st, 2007, 6:31 pm |
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It is interesting, and I've nothing against it at all, it's just a bit... surprising I guess. *shrugs* Actually, I've never really stopped to think about it.
Thanks for the article, Sida. I'm surprised JKR waited so long to tell everyone really. It's not obvious at all in the books, so I guess we'll really just have to take her word for it. Oh the fan fiction that will come from this... 
What interested me more was the fact that the film makers for HBP were going to make reference to a girl that Dumbledore loved from his past. When is that ever alluded to in HBP, or anywhere else through out the series? It's so... random.
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Post subject: Posted: October 22nd, 2007, 1:39 pm |
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Erm... yes.. I have nothing against gay people or anything, never have, mever will... but I find the whole "this will be good for children to know this" hard to swallow. I mean, I would hate to think that any author would decide to make a character something just for the sake of "sending out a message" if you know what I mean?
And of course, because of what it is, anyone who says they don't like this twist to the story, may well be deemed anti-gay. I just don't like it, as it doesn't fit, and it's only purpose really seems to be so that kids can understand that being gay isn't a bad thing.
*shakes head* I hate to think of characters being compromised just so they send a message to the world.
Having said that, the 6th and 7th books were getting to be child unfriendly, so why not throw in and try to explain to an 9 year old, new to the series what being gay actually means?
Jeez... and the whole thing with Hannah Abbot.... honestly, she could literally say anything she wanted about all the characters and whatever happened afterwards, and people will believe her because she is the author. She wants to try expanding on the HP world, like now, rather than just saying these things randomly when she's trotting round the world. Imagine if Toliken, just randomly came out with history of certain characters, that wouldn't be very good for the fans would it?
I wait with baited breath, to see what else she throws at us, and what other startling revelations we get to hear about. Mind you, for me the damage has already been done.
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Post subject: Posted: October 22nd, 2007, 9:41 pm |
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Thank you for saying what I've been longing to say JF. I really wasn't sure how to word how uncomfortable I am with this new revelation without sounding anti-gay. Seriously, I have no problem with anyone's sexual orientation as truthfully, it's none of my business, however, I think this was going just a bit too far.
I mean, it came right out of the blue, and although it sends a good message of tolerance, it just seemed completely random. As it is, I always thought that JKR sent moral messages of tolerance through the examples of prejudice pertaining to the wizarding world, such as purebloods versus muggle-borns.
Anyway, I think the time of spouting out random facts like this is over. If she really wants to make it official why not write that encyclopedia I've been hearing about?
Last edited by Larael on October 22nd, 2007, 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Posted: October 22nd, 2007, 10:04 pm |
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No, thank you. I have been waiting all day to see what you and others said about it, because I was pretty angry when I wrote that (as you can probably tell) and I wondered if I had gone too far.
I am uncomfortable with it, because to me, it looks like she has seen an opening in the story for her to add some moral message that will garner her applause and people to say "what a brave move in a children's book, but what a good move".
She is slowly ruining the magic of HP for me. I personally never wanted to know more about Dumbledore's past, just like I have never read a Wiki article on Gandalf to learn more of his past (although I am going to guess it's nothing like Dumbledore's). I was more than happy with him as a character, and now to add this to it.... it seems completely and utterly implausible, and yes for me she has ruined him.
I mean has she even considered know all the things what will be said about him? About all the scenes he had alone with Harry and other characters? Stupid of course, but does she really want children to be now thinking back to all these scenes and possibly wondering if there was more to it?
Seriously, I am disgusted with her. Not because she "says" he is gay, but the way in which she has announced it... like a giggling school girl revealing the name of a secret lover.
If she thinks we're all supposed to be impressed by this "brave move", I am far from it.
There are millions of kids who grew up with these books and who are going to grow up with them. Some of us have had our favourites die, and have had things revealed we would rather not know. We're only kids once, and I think it's a sad thing, that many events in the later HP books, are no longer for the young and innocent. Whether we learn a moral message or not. I would rather learn it by any means other that at the expense of a character I have been following since I was 11.
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Post subject: Posted: October 22nd, 2007, 10:24 pm |
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No not too far at all. We have both stated that we have nothing against gay people, and so I think it is possible for us to carry on a conversation such as this without it getting out of hand.
Truthfully, the fact that a character in the HP series could be considered gay is not why I'm uncomfortable. Gay people don't make me uncomfortable at all. I think it's the fact that JKR has abused her creative licence which makes me uncomfortable. "Brave move" or not, I am wholly disappointed in her. I mean, this is the woman who made up the entirety of Harry's world and created such a wonderful story, why ruin it now?
Actually, I'm almost afraid to read anything else said by her or written by her for fear of learning something else such as this. It's entirely irrelevant and unnecessary to the story, and it does nothing for her image. Yes, many people will applaud her "bold move", but at the same time many will disapprove of it.
*sigh* This may be one thing that I may have to learn to ignore.
Now, now, don't get me wrong, this isn't the only thing she's said that I've chosen to dislike. Neville marrying Hannah Abbot is another one. It's just that this is something that concerns one of my favourite story book heroes of all time, and it concerns the entirety of the HP fandom.
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Post subject: Posted: October 22nd, 2007, 10:37 pm |
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Yes, that is what makes me uncomfortable as well. Some people may argue "why has she ruined it?", but can anyone truly and honestly say, without referring to how good it is in our modern world to add it in, that it has enhanced the story or made us all feel better for knowing it? Because I don't think many people can truthfully say that.
And yes, she has abused her creative licence. I think the possiblity of adding something like having the top man Dumbledore as being gay, and the possiblities of the shock waves that it would send out, and the message (which of course is why she wrote it in, not for the praise she will no doubt receive) was too much of an opportunity for her to miss.
Let us not forget the many nights that our hero's spent together in a tent and the nights that Harry and Hermione were alone. What wonderful possibilites open up for us... perhaps her message here could be the thoughtfullness that so often lacks in teenagers today, and that they did actually use method's that would prohibit preganancy.... now there is an issue she could address.
Welcome to my little world of trying to ignore many things in the latter HP books Larael. Have a seat luv.
That wasn't what got me. Hannah the Leaky Cauldron owner!?! Why would anyone who has an ounce of magial ability and who is married to a Profressor at Hogwarts own a pub?!
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Post subject: Posted: October 22nd, 2007, 10:55 pm |
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And the thing is, if that was her intent [to enhance the story or make us feel better for knowing it] then she messed up badly. I certainly don't feel enhanced in my HP knowledge or feel any better. Actually I feel quite uncomfortable now. If you haven't mentioned it through out all 7 books, why mention it now?
And yet, it's so unecessary. Again, it may make her look good in some peoples' eyes, however, in others, especially those who already hang in the balance of uncertainty over her books [e.g. parents of children, and the religious] will most definitely see this as a chance to not read HP anymore and discourage others as well. It just doesn't seem so appropriate for this type of series. I mean, any mention of sexual orientation isn't appropriate for this series no matter how old some of the audience is.
Yes, those are issues she could address, though wouldn't we rather she left them out completely? Her books are already chock full of solid morals like love, loyalty, friendship, and the concept of good conquering evil, so why should we include these not so solid morals that some people may or may not agree with. It's wholly inappropriate in my mind.
*takes a seat* Well... this is cozy. Why can't I just go back to being the innocent 7 year old that I was when I first read PS?
I completely forgot about that! Ya know, that really gets my goat. Seriously, what an irrelevent piece of information. It's degrading to the very world she has worked so hard to put together!
Okay... I have no problem with her giving out info on characters in the series and their past lives [most especially what we saw in her web chat; that was good info], however I think she's becoming a bit desperate.
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Post subject: Posted: October 22nd, 2007, 11:21 pm |
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Exactly. And the way it was kept as a secret until months after the book was published and everyone had read it... if that person hadn't asked the question, when would she have told the world?
Yes, I did wonder about that. I mean for me, I think this series took an adult turn quite dramatically in the 6th book and the 7th book was just vicious. My cousin (who is in his 40's) loves the books and the films, and he also said it was a very vicious book, and no longer for children, what with the language etc. Fair enough, the books had to get darker, but did they have to get so dark and so much more for adults? I don't know about other people, but I was quite late in understanding what the word "gay" meant, so if this was 7 years ago, I would be utterly confused, have to ask my parents what it meant, who no doubt would wonder what kind of book HP had turned into.
Yes, I know. I was being sarcastic really.  It really wouldn't surprise me at all anymore, what else she decides to tell us. I mean, really she could get asked a question, and say anything she felt like, and it would have to be true, because she said it and she is the author. If Molly has another child, and calls if Frederica, we'd have to believe her, because she said it. I want things written down, not little things she decides to honour us with knowing.
Do you know what Larael? I seriously regret reading the last two. I really do. They grew more complicated, more dark and just basically, the more I think about them, the less I like them. Harry Potter was such a magical book, it enthralled me, it excited me, and even if there were dangers, you knew it would be alright in the end, because you had characters you could depend on. But when she started giving us backstories, and putting doubts in our minds that all we had read, maybe it wasn't quite true, and maybe some people were better than they seemed or worse, some part of me wished it was how it used to be. And when she started killing characters off left right and centre, characters I had grown up with almost, and loved... it was not only like she was trying to sever all the connections Harry had to his early life at Hogwarts, but like she was trying to do the same for the readers... but who here can say they didn't once mention Hedwig's death or think about her after it had happened... unlike Harry who seemed to have forgotten her.
It is an silly piece of information. It makes no sense. Somene like Stan Shunpike would be better suited for that job.
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Post subject: Posted: October 25th, 2007, 10:17 pm |
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Ugh. I'm sorry JF-ish-ness.. I just read your post about 3 times, yet I can't seem to take in any of it. It's not you, it's me... it's been a long week. *sigh*
Let's see... so, I've been hearing a lot of arguments saying that we shouldn't care about Dumbledore's sexual orientation because of the fact that it does not change who he is, his motives, or what he did. Now that, I think we can both agree with, aye?
To sum things up, I think the main problem both us have with all of this is that this piece of information was wholly unnecessary and does nothing to enhance our knowledge of the HP world. It "came out of the blue" as I put it.
Anyway, after a few days mellow contemplation I think I've been able to convince myself that this will not affect the way I look at HP ever again. It's sort of like waking up from a weird dream I guess. I remember it like a memory, yet I know it's not real.
Gah! Now it sounds like I'm denying what JKR said, and that I'm anti-gay. I dunno how to put this... Basically, I don't like it that JKR felt the need to tell us about Dumbledore's sexual orientation, and so I'm choosing to ignore it. That's it. End of story.
As for wishing you hadn't read HBP or DH Ducky, I don't agree. Those 2 books were probably my favourite out of the series, however that's quite irrelevant as we all have our preferences.
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Post subject: Posted: October 25th, 2007, 11:15 pm |
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*pat pat*
Nevermind. I've read it again myself, and it makes sense, but then I re-read your post before that so maybe that's why.
Agreed. And I also agree that it was unnecessary. So unnecessary in fact, I believe it was only added for the purpose of conveying a moral lesson, and as I said before, I don't like the idea of a character being made into something he or she was never intended to be just because "it would look good". Surely it would have been better for it to be known early on that Dumbledore was gay, thus people would have just accepted it as part of the character (and maybe even part of the story). As it is, it sounds almost like and add-on thing, which JKR just decided to add for good measure.
No, it won't affect how I look at HP, because I am going to ignore it without a doubt. I still won't be able to quite understand the reasoning behind it though, apart from what I already suspect.
Hehe, I didn't think you would agree somehow.
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