You're most welcome Fíriel.
I think it's so great how many of the lines in the movie are taken right off the books and quoted word by word!!

I should read LotR again... *checks schedule* summer break looks like a good time!

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Hah. I have Winter break next week, so I might just choose to reread it then.

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Goodness Aerandear, are you saying you are gonna be on the forum 27/7 over the next week? That's almost scary...


Anyway, I always thought it was really cool how Gandalf reveals himself to the Balrog - and to every other magical beings - in Moria. The challenge: I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. So powerful... too bad the Balrog wasn't impressed!

It is mentioned a couple of times in the books, the thing about revealing oneself. When he ignites the wood on Caradhras, when he burns his rune in the stone on Amon Hen etc.
Since Tolkien never specifically refers to the Powers as 'magic'... still it's like those who possesses those Powers are very sensitive to them.
How did you imagine Gandalf's Powers?

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Gandalf has many great powers. In battle and in counsel(The Hobbit, Appendices of LoTR) He is not allowed to show his real power though so he usually veiled it.
@Aerandir: I READ the UF but I can't remember tha names
I should get the book back from my sister and reread it...

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He might not have been allowed (why is it that the good always have many more restrictions laid upon them than the anarchistic bad guys?!), but in Moria he also says that when he practise his powers he is revealed to everyone in Middle-earth. I imagine it like those with powers were able to reveal themselves if they wanted to, but in the moment they used their power other beings of power (Maiar and maybe elves) would immediately be aware.

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I've always interpreted that statement, Eä, as meaning that he was revealed to any observers, because his power was unmistakable.

However, I never really imagined his powers. They seem too diverse for that.

No, though, I'm not going to be on the forum 27/7....maybe only 24/7.

Actually it'll probably only be like......10 hours a day instead of my usual 5.

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Yeah I have to agree with you Eä that it's great that there are some direct quotes from the books in the movies. I also agree with what you said about Gandalf and the Balrog. I think it was a really brave act wanting to destroy the Balrog and not just flee to save himself. Hmm.. can't really say much about how I imagine Gandalf's power, because I've never really thought about it. I guess what makes him such a great character for me is that he doesn't show off with his power and knowledge and that he doesn't want anything for what he's doing for other people.

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Ohh only 10 hours... so you're just dismissing the three extra hours I was generously giving you, lol!

What do you mean by observers? Who would they be?


I agree Fíriel. Gandalf was humble, but he was confident as well. He knew when to use his powers and when to let them rest, and he put up with a lot of scorn and insults on that account.

I'm still wondering if Gandalf really believed he would have a chance to defeat the Balrog or whether he was deliberately sacrificing himself to save the Fellowship.

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By observers, I was referring to anyone who might be watching, specifically on Caradhras, when Gandalf lights the fire--he says something like "If anyone was watching, they will know that Gandalf is here," or something like that.

The thing I like about Gandalf is that he stayed true to his mission--subvert Sauron's power in Middle-earth, and keep the Free peoples free. Saruman fell to his lust for power, and Tolkien said that it was likely that Alatar and Pallando did as well, and that Radagast began caring more for birds and beasts than for the Children of Iluvatar. Only Olorin (Gandalf) stayed true to his mission. That's always been an endearing trait.

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^
yeah I can only agree. After all it would've been very easy for him just to follow Saruman and stand on the evil side with him, but no he chose the more dangerous and harder way - and it worked. I think that also shows how powerful he is.

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By the way: In The Hobbit Gandalf shows something of his power when he blows up some goblins and rescues teh dwarves and Bilbo from them.

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Yeah that's true. But in the Hobbit he doesn't show is real power I think. You don't really get to know what he really can do

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In The Hobbit, he shows just some of what he is capable of--I take the passage in TTT very literally when he tells Gimli that he (Gandalf) is more dangerous than anyone in Middle-earth, now, except for Sauron. I have never taken that as boasting. I think Gandalf really is really powerful.

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Yeah I think so too. But in the Hobbit is the only time I think when he shows something of his real power (except the fire-lighting in FotR).

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><>Son of God, brother of Jesus. I've got the best family I could have imagined! Saved by his mercy and love. What else could I wish for?<><

Well, kind of. He does show off some of his power when he fights the Balrog. However, not as much (so it seems) as in The Hobbit.

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Ohh, actually, I would say Gandalf needed to use all of his powers to fight the balrog, an ancient and evil maia spirit would be an even match for him. The balrog had existed in Middle-earth for longer time than Gandalf, and I think the Istari were limited by the hmm... 'frames' and limits of Middle-earth when they arrived.
Gandalf's fight with the balrog might not look of much on the outside, but I believe it was his greatest deed as gandalf the Grey.

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