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The Beornings
http://arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14330		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Aerandir [ March 2nd, 2007, 3:27 am ]
Post subject:  The Beornings
Now this is a topic that occurred to me recently, and I've spent a bunch of time thinking about it. What exactly was Beorn? The situation is kind of similar to Tom Bombadil, I guess, but while I've always thought of Tom as a Maia, Beorn doesn't seem that way. A theory I have is that he's descended from Maiar, sort of like Lúthien was, but....I haven't come up with any other good explanation. :confused2:
Author:  Eruhin [ March 2nd, 2007, 7:52 am ]
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But Gimli in some place mentions the Beornings as the best bakers he knows of(LoTR, FoTR). I think they must be related to Beorn and they are said to be men. Maybe Beorn is "uncommonly large and strong" :-D
Author:  Aerandir [ March 2nd, 2007, 8:34 am ]
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The Beornings are Beorn's descendants. In LotR, it mentions Grimbeorn, son of Beorn. However, Beorn was said to be able to shift into the form of a great bear, which is obviously beyond the skills and abilities of mere men. That's why I think Beorn must have been a Maia/descended from a Maia.
Author:  Fíriel_18190 [ March 2nd, 2007, 1:49 pm ]
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I think the Beornings are a very interesting topic. I don't really now much about Beor and his descendants, but what I've read in the Hobbit and LotR made me wonder who Beorn actually is. I also thought he was kinda similar to Tom Bombadil in a way. I think in some place it is mentioned that Tom Bombadil maybe is a Maia, but I never saw him like a Maia nor do I see Beorn as a Maia. Both of them don't quite seem to have the characteristics that are typical for the other Maiar I know. I've always thought of them as individuals who don't belong to a certain group of people I guess.
Author:  Aerandir [ March 3rd, 2007, 10:49 am ]
Post subject: 
And yet they have to be Ainur/part Ainur. None of the Children of Iluvatar have the power they possess, and the only others in the world were Ainur, good or bad, unless you think they are something like the Ents, who are not called "Children of Iluvatar." In their case, though, the Ents are a number, a group, of creatures--Bombadil and Beorn are alone, the only ones of their kind. I think they have to be Maia/part Maia, considering their powers. I would say Vala, but all of those were accounted for.
Author:  Eruhin [ March 3rd, 2007, 12:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
That sounds logic. So Beorn seems to be an Ainur. I can't think of another race. But why do you think he's a Vala?
Author:  Fíriel_18190 [ March 3rd, 2007, 12:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well if the two of them are Ainur then I'm pretty sure that they are Maiar and not Valar, because Tolkien mentioned all the Valar in the beginning of the Sil.
Author:  Aerandir [ March 3rd, 2007, 12:56 pm ]
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I don't think Beorn is a Vala--maybe Tom is, but not Beorn. However, I do think he is a Maia.
Author:  Eruhin [ March 3rd, 2007, 12:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think Tolkien mentioned only the most powerful Valar at the beginning didn't he?
Author:  Aerandir [ March 3rd, 2007, 12:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
I forget, right now. I think he mentioned all of them.
Author:  Fíriel_18190 [ March 3rd, 2007, 1:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeah me too. I don't think that Tom is a Vala either. I mean Tolkien said that there are many Maiar of different kinds, but there are only very few Valar.
Author:  Aerandir [ March 3rd, 2007, 4:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah. I've always thought of the Valar as simply being the most powerful of the Ainur, and the Maiar as the lesser beings, but both being still the 'same' except in terms of power. However, my memory is poking at me--I seem to remember something about Manwë, Ulmo, etc--the Valier--being the Lords of the Valar, but not necessarily the only ones. I suppose I'm defeating my own previous posts, but...I'm not absolutely certain about that point.
Author:  Fíriel_18190 [ March 4th, 2007, 4:44 am ]
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Well I don't think we can be absolutely certain what they were, because Tolkien never explained it, did he??
Author:  Aerandir [ March 4th, 2007, 10:56 am ]
Post subject: 
No, he never actually explained it (so far as I know), but we can at least speculate some more here.

Okay, I looked in The Silmarillion this morning, and it says that "the mighty of these (the Ainur) were called the Valar..." and then "The Lords of the Valar are seven," Note the use of the word "Lords"--it implies that my first impression was wrong, and that there still is the possibility that Tom is a Vala. That might very well be possible.
Author:  Eruhin [ March 4th, 2007, 1:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
hehe. Gotcha
Author:  Fíriel_18190 [ March 5th, 2007, 11:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Well theoretically he could be a Vala then, but he doesn't really have the characteristics that all the other Valar have in common. And also in the Council of Elrond it is said that Tom Bombadil alone would not have the power to defeat Sauron and that he would fall as the last person in Middle-Earth if the council gave the ring to him. So I don't think that he is a Vala, because Sauron is a Maia and it is said that the Valar are more powerful than the Maiar so if Tom was a Vala he should be powerful enough to defeat Sauron in my opinion.
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