I read the Harry Potter books first, so I never really thought they copied the LotR, but now that I think about it, they are a bit similar. But I've read books that are WAY closer to LotR than that! Examples:
Eragon by Christopher Paolini -- It's a great book, but the evil creatures almost exactly like orcs and are called 'urgals'
Dragonlance series by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman -- again, very good books, but there are a group of companions that travel around there world fighting the evil forces that are taking over. I definitely think the authors were 'influenced' by LotR. But I still love the books

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I've read Eragon, and that seemed kinda middle-earthish to me, but it's a good story



I agree with you, MrsDominicMonaghan!



as fans we should expect a lot, to preserve the intgrity of the book, and if we didn't, let's face it, stupid people would make stupid movies, like the filmaker who wanted the characters in the LotR to be one big movie, or ride around on eagles the whole movie (And I wish I was joking on the last part but, unfotunately, it's true)

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There is only one thing that I dread: not to be worthy of my sufferings.

True. As fans, we should expect more, but I only became a fan after the movies came out anyway.

As for the idea to put all the characters into one big movie - that would be even worse. More important scenes would be neglected! Good thing that filmmaker was turned down!

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it was actually the miramax who wanted it to be one big movie, PJ turned them down! (yea!)

And Fans are what keep things alive, so go us for sopporting LotR!

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There is only one thing that I dread: not to be worthy of my sufferings.

I think they're both great books, but in terms a movies, that's a different story. This is a book discussion, right? Well I think there are many things that J.K. Rowling put in her books that resemble Tolkien's, but each book has it's own originality. Both authors lived at different times, but the stories are different. Yes, there are a lot of characters that resemble.

The list:

Tolkien:
Ringwraiths
Giant Spiders
-Shelob
Dragons
Eagles

Rowling:
Dementors
Giant Spiders too
-Aragog
Dragons, but in smaller terms
Eagles

I could go on with the list, but I think Rowling might have used some characters, if she did read LotR or not. She might have just heard they were in the LotR books, and decided to use a Spider or snake that would fit her discription. So not exactly from Tolkien's books.

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Capt. Jack: Shoot him and cut out his tongue! Then shoot his tongue!..and trim that scraggly beard.

yAAAy! The <a href="http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2007/tc20071218_443372.htm">Hobbit movie</a> is back on!!! Movie buffs get excited!

you'll find that althroughout history too, those are common ground in many cultures (not to mention JK and Tolkien are both English!)

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There is only one thing that I dread: not to be worthy of my sufferings.

Here is some information I've gathered:

1) Main characters Frodo and Harry:
- Both have relatives that hate the main character:
~ HP: Dudley, Uncle Vernon, Aunt Petunia.
~ LotR: Lotho, Otho, Lobelia.

2) The prefix "Ara":
- LotR: Aragorn, Arathorn, Arador.
- HP: Aragog.

3)The main character and his best friend have to face giant spiders:
- LotR: Shelob (Frodo and Sam)
- HP: Aragog (Harry and Ron)

4) Dark Lords Sauron and Voldemort:
- Both were diminished, but not yet destroyed, and before they returned to power they had no human form.

5) Dumbledores:
- LotR: a large, winged, insect.
- HP: Headmaster of Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry.

6) Both have a 'Good Wizard' that has a long beard and a pointed wizard hat:
- LotR: Gandalf
- HP: Dumbledore.

7) Both have a good wizard that turned evil:
- LotR: Saruman
- HP: Tom Riddle (Voldemort)

8 ) Both have a dark forest that everyone fears:
- LotR: Mirkwood, Fangorn.
- HP: The Forbidden Forest.

9) Both have things that warn them of the dark lords.
-HP: Harry's scar
-LotR: Frodo has the Ring.

10) The opening of both Harry Potter and The Hobbit is similar. The Dursleys were considered very decent people and never wanted to have anything to do with mischief, as did everyone on their street. Bilbo didn't want to get into any adventures, for they are considered 'not respectable' among Hobbits. The Dursleys had relatives which were doing the opposite of them(Potters). So did Bilbo(Tooks).

11) I once read an interview with Rowling and she said she had never even read LOTR when asked about the comparisons, a few years later I read another about the same subject and she said she read it when she was young. So why the first denial?

^^^Provided by my sister Gillian and I.
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The plots of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone, the first book in the series, and The Lord of the Rings are broadly parallel.

Wise wizards (Dumbledore in Harry Potter/Gandalf in The Lord of the Rings) mentor and guide the "little" people (children/hobbits) who are short on wisdom but tall on courage. The evil sorcerers (Voldemort/Sauron) are weak in the beginning of the stories and must be prevented from regaining the power they had lost. Voldemort and Sauron attempt to acquire magical objects (the Sorcerer’s Stone/the One Ring) that can make them strong again. Possession of the Sorcerer’s Stone has given Dumbledore’s 666-year-old friend, Nicolas Flamel, the key to immortality; similarly, the One Ring has enabled Gollum, a hobbit, to live for more than 600 years; and Bilbo, the hobbit who acquires the Ring after Gollum loses it, has also lived a longer-than-normal lifespan.

The heroes, the boy wizard Harry and the hobbit Frodo, are both orphans who find themselves in situations in which greatness is thrust upon them. They feel obligated to do the right but difficult thing, rather than what is easy, for the common good. Harry and Frodo play major parts in defeating the villains, although they are not the ones who ultimately destroy the magical objects. Mooney notes in his article that Harry and Frodo suffer from scars as a result of wounds inflicted on them by the enemy. While The Lord of the Rings ends after the Ring is destroyed, Sauron defeated and order reestablished in Middle-earth, the destruction of the Sorcerer's Stone in Harry Potter only temporarily prevents Voldemort from becoming powerful. Voldemort finds other means of surviving and growing stronger in the other three Harry Potter books that have been published to date.

Let us now look at some of the "individual details" of the stories and how Rowling has apparently modified some of Tolkien's characters and ideas with great effect.

The Characters and Names

Butterbur and butterbeer. In The Lord of the Rings, Barliman Butterbur is the bustling, kindly, but forgetful innkeeper of The Prancing Pony, and he serves excellent ale. Rowling may be cleverly playing on Butterbur’s name when she calls the frothy, buttery, non-alcoholic hot drink that the Hogwarts students love "butterbeer."

Longbottom Leaf and Neville Longbottom. The hobbits of the Rings trilogy are fond of inhaling "through pipes of clay or wood, the smoke of the burning leaves of a herb, which they called pipe-weed or leaf" (see Prologue to The Lord of the Rings). The best variety of pipe-weed is known as Longbottom Leaf. Interestingly, Longbottom is the last name of the boy in Harry Potter whose favorite subject is herbology, and so the association of Neville Longbottom with Longbottom Leaf is especially appropriate.

Villains Anonymous. The villains of both fantasies are often referred to indirectly, as if they are too terrifying to name. Boromir and his brother Faramir, valiant men from Gondor, call Sauron "him that we do not name." Other men of Gondor sometimes call Sauron The Nameless One. Most wizards in Harry Potter refer to Voldemort as He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named or You-Know-Who.

Wormtongue and Wormtail. Wormtongue, the deceitful advisor to King Theoden, is really serving Saruman, the good-wizard-gone-bad in The Lord of the Rings. Wormtongue’s counterpart in Harry Potter is Wormtail, or Peter Pettigrew, the wizard who betrayed Harry’s parents to Voldemort. Peter is nicknamed Wormtail because he can transform himself into a rat. Until his true identity is discovered in the third book, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, he has been in hiding as Harry’s friend Ron’s pet rat, Scabbers.

In spite of their treachery, both Wormtongue and Wormtail’s lives are spared by the good characters. Calling Wormtongue "a snake," Gandalf says, "To slay it would be just," but he advises King Theoden to let Wormtongue go free. Wormtongue sets off to join Saruman. Toward the end of The Return of the King, Frodo again shows mercy to Wormtongue, telling him he need not follow Saruman. However, when Saruman kicks Wormtongue in the face, Wormtongue finally snaps and retaliates by killing Saruman. In Harry Potter, Wormtail would have been killed by two adult wizards, Remus Lupin and Sirius Black, if Harry had not intervened. Harry believes his father would not have wanted them to kill Wormtail. Harry thinks it would be best to have Wormtail sent to the wizard prison, Azkaban. Just as Harry and the other wizards are taking Wormtail to Dumbledore, Wormtail escapes. Wormtail finds Voldemort and becomes his servant again. Will Wormtail have something to do with Voldemort's downfall in the end?

Old Man Willow and the Whomping Willow. There are willow trees that are very much alive in both fantasies. Old Man Willow in Tolkien’s trilogy actually swallows the hobbit, Pippin, has another hobbit, Merry, in a tight grip, and tips Frodo into the water after lulling him to sleep. The equivalent in Harry Potter is the Whomping Willow in the Forbidden Forest that swings its branches wildly and tosses anything in its path. Once, Harry and Ron arrive at Hogwarts in a flying car, and it is caught in the Whomping Willow, with disastrous results. Rowling gives her willow tree a greater significance: The tree was planted to hide the secret entrance to a tunnel leading to a house used by the wizard Lupin when he has his monthly transformations into a werewolf.

Black Riders and Dementors.I see the Dementors in Harry Potter as a close likeness to the Black Riders because they are hooded, cloaked figures who inspire fear. The Black Riders or Ringwraiths were once kings who became corrupted when Sauron gave them rings of power. They appear to be both material and immaterial, capable of physically as well as psychologically attacking their enemies.

It is uncertain as of the fourth book, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, what the Dementors actually look like, although Harry once caught sight of a hideous, decaying hand under the cloak of a Dementor. The Dementors are the guards of Azkaban; they have the power to suck the souls out of the prisoners by giving them the kiss of death.

Shelob and Aragog. In Tolkien’s The Hobbit, Bilbo saved his dwarven companions from giant spiders in the forest of Mirkwood. The Lord of the Rings features a giant, ancient spider named Shelob that feeds on any living thing that comes her way. Frodo is stung by Shelob, and Sam valiantly battles Shelob alone. In Harry Potter, Harry and Ron meet spiders in the Forbidden Forest whose king, Aragog, resembles Shelob in size and appetite for flesh. Ron's fear of spiders had been established, and this incident tests his bravery. Aragog would have fed Harry and Ron to his spider kindred, but the boys narrowly escape.

The Use of Mirrors

Mirrors are used as means of revelation in both fantasies. The Mirror of Galadriel is "a basin of silver, wide and shallow," which the Lady Galadriel fills with water. After breathing upon the basin, she invites Frodo and Sam to look into it so that events in the past, somewhere else in the present, or future may be revealed to them. They take turns looking and are disturbed by what they see. They do not fully comprehend the events revealed until they experience these events later.

In Harry Potter, Harry discovers the Mirror of Erised and is drawn to it because it shows him his parents smiling and waving at him. The mirror looks like a regular mirror, but it reveals Harry’s deepest longing--to be with his parents. In a poignant moment, Dumbledore draws Harry away from the mirror, telling him gently, "It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live . . ."

Rowling introduces another device in the fourth book, called a "Pensieve," that reveals events in the past. The Pensieve is a "shallow stone basin," and Harry sees a "bright, whitish silver" substance in it. The shape and color of the Pensieve and its contents are reminiscent of the Mirror of Galadriel. Harry is drawn to the Pensieve while he is alone in Dumbledore’s office, and he finds himself "falling" into it when he peers closely at it. He is transported in time to a different place and witnesses some significant events. Later, Dumbledore explains to Harry that when his head is too crammed with thoughts and memories, he uses the Pensieve to collect his excess thoughts in order to examine them at leisure some other time. Dumbledore then demonstrates how he siphons his thoughts into the Pensieve.

^^^Provided by GreenBooks at theonering.net. (Guest appearances; How much was Rowling inspired by Tolkien)
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1) A birthday sets off events
~Harry's 11th
~Frodo's 33rd and Bilbo's 111th

2) Dog named Fang
~Owned by Hagrid
~Owned by Farmer Maggot

3) Fight with a troll
~Harry, Ron and Hermione fight a troll on Halloween
~The Fellowship of the Ring fight a troll in Moria

4) Small, pitiable creature who talks in third person
~Dobby
~Gollum

5) Holder of the keys
~Hagrid (Keeper of the Keys)
~Hurin (Warden of the Keys)

6) Longed for safe-haven
~During the summer Harry wishes he was back at Hogwarts
~On their quest, the hobbits long to be back in the safety of the Shire. *This could also refer to the Elves' longing for Valinor

7) Scar from Evil forces
~Harry's scar on forehead
~Frodo's scar from the Morgul Blade

^^^Provided by MuggleNet.com (Similarities)

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wow!

I was never expecting that much information!

But thanks for suppling it Varda!

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There is only one thing that I dread: not to be worthy of my sufferings.

You're welcome. I just need to say that I love both books(I'm the founder of the HP and the Tolkien fanclubs), but I do think Rowling copied.

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I honestly don't believe she did copy, althoughout history you come across many stories with topics like that

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There is only one thing that I dread: not to be worthy of my sufferings.

I looked up some stuff, and stuff like that came up! Wow, the list does go on and on and on.
oooo

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Capt. Jack: Shoot him and cut out his tongue! Then shoot his tongue!..and trim that scraggly beard.

yAAAy! The <a href="http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2007/tc20071218_443372.htm">Hobbit movie</a> is back on!!! Movie buffs get excited!

thanks for that great info Varda! I would've never thought of all that!

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*looks at Varda's post*

*faints*

Wow - that's a whole lot of information - thanks! I always thought they were slightly similar in some ways.

Thanks for the information! I guess you're pretty knowledgeable on both LotR and Harry Potter. Me, not really. In fact, I almost forgot Voldemort's name a few days ago - couldn't really remember.

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Yeah, but I also found a lot of it on the internet. Mugglenet.com and greenbooks at theonering.net(guest appearances section) are good sources.

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Yes I've been to both of those sites before and I've seen what you just posted. For some of it I think that they were trying way too hard to find the similarities. After they found the first few obvious ones (Gandalf/Dumbledore, Demotors/Black Riders, Aragog/Shelob) they went deeper and deeper until every bit of the books was picked apart and compared with eachother. A waste of time if you ask me...

Comparing the philosopher's stone and The Ring of Power? What, they both prolong your life? Wow, big similarity there. Yep, I bet when Rowling made up the philosopher's stone the one ring was exactly what she had in mind *wishes there was a sarcastic smiley*

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But both also refer to pure gold. (one ring made by it, ps can turn any metal into it)

It may be a waste of time to you, but it isn't to me.

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