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Post subject: Posted: January 1st, 2006, 9:07 pm |
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Joined: 30 December 2005 Posts: 2901
Gender: Female
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I guess you're right in one way, Ea, there are always two sides to a story. But in this case, Melkor was basically pure evil, and I'm not willing to think that he thought he was doing something good. I just hate Melkor for what he did to those poor elves... it makes me sick.
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Post subject: Posted: January 1st, 2006, 9:33 pm |
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Joined: 01 January 2006 Posts: 36 Location: Look Behind you.
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You must look at both sides for everything. I agree with Ea. He did wrong but he did it for a reason. I personally think the reason was that he wants to make the world his own, and he needs his own people. He needs to mimick somthing, or maim somthing to do that beacuse he does not have the ... *Draws a blank* Flame? the Eternal Flame? man i forget, read it a pretty long time ago. Must. Read. Again.
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Post subject: Posted: January 2nd, 2006, 12:07 am |
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Joined: 10 September 2005 Posts: 5839 Location: P3X-774, Rohan, Moya, or my TARDIS
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I can't say for sure because I'm only about 15 pages into the Silmarillioin, but I see Melkor as some one who was misunderstood. He was a genious. Ohhhhh. I came up with agood analogy. But any way, I think of Melekor as the phantom from phantom of the opera. Misunderstood, a genious. But was he ugly? Well, the analogy isn't perfect.
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Post subject: Posted: January 2nd, 2006, 5:28 am |
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Eä |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 12592
Gender: Female
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~*ArwenEvenstar*~ wrote: I guess you're right in one way, Ea, there are always two sides to a story. But in this case, Melkor was basically pure evil, and I'm not willing to think that he thought he was doing something good. I just hate Melkor for what he did to those poor elves... it makes me sick.
And yet Melkor came into being through the power of Ilúvatar! If we assume that Ilúvatar is all good, then an offspring of his thought cannot be pure evil! The Valar were given free will and each could use his powers as he thought would be the best. Melkor simply chose another path than the rest.... and the winner writes the story, right
LeahwithanH, the Valar weren't given the power to create, is that what you mean?
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Post subject: Posted: January 2nd, 2006, 5:36 pm |
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Joined: 10 September 2005 Posts: 5839 Location: P3X-774, Rohan, Moya, or my TARDIS
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Okay, my catholic background is coming out again. Tolkin was a christian. I think he related this story to the whole God and Lucifer story. Iluvatar is very powerful "God" and the Ainur are the "angles" Melkor is a very bad "angle" that corrupts beings.
About the Valar not having the power to create. I can't remember his name, but one of the Valar (Ouro..oremo...somthing with an "O"..) He created the dwarves, didn't he?
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Post subject: Posted: January 3rd, 2006, 12:04 pm |
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Joined: 07 June 2005 Posts: 5272 Location: Texas
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if any of you have read morgoths ring, you would know that melkor didn't want to rule the world, he wanted to destroy it, which is why he dispersed his power into all the matter of Arda. He would've destroyed his own creations in the end
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Post subject: Posted: January 6th, 2006, 6:19 am |
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Joined: 21 June 2005 Posts: 305 Location: The Netherlands, Bleiswijk
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Saruman sais orcs were Elves once in FOTR, against the Uruk-hai
_________________ I'm a Lotr-Fan, and i love Hip-Hop and Rap. They don't mix, i know.
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Post subject: Posted: January 6th, 2006, 11:08 pm |
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Joined: 06 January 2006 Posts: 27 Location: Australia
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*nods* Melkor's an odd little thing. I knew that orcs were tortured from Elves, but I can't remember where I heard that o_O
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Post subject: Posted: January 9th, 2006, 9:31 pm |
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Joined: 07 June 2005 Posts: 5272 Location: Texas
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Melkors a nihilistic madman, bent on annihilating everything, including the matter of Arda, even though all he would do is reduce everything to chaos, which could be repaired
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Post subject: Posted: January 10th, 2006, 11:00 pm |
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Joined: 10 January 2006 Posts: 190 Location: Australia
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Quote: About the Valar not having the power to create. I can't remember his name, but one of the Valar (Ouro..oremo...somthing with an "O"..) He created the dwarves, didn't he?
yeah, but he couldn't give them life - Illuvatar gave them life, right?
I just started reading the Silmarillan too, and although i already knew that (have no idea where from, lol) but still . . poor elves. I really dislike Melkor - i could tell from the beginning he was Morgoth in the making.
And just as a note,
I HATE FEANOR!!!!!!!!!! XD
_________________ I LOVE JONHHY DEPP!
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O Light to us that wander here.
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Post subject: Posted: January 11th, 2006, 5:30 pm |
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Eä |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 12592
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Ardhoniel wrote: Quote: About the Valar not having the power to create. I can't remember his name, but one of the Valar (Ouro..oremo...somthing with an "O"..) He created the dwarves, didn't he?
yeah, but he couldn't give them life - Illuvatar gave them life, right?
Yeah, I think Aulë, the Smith made the dwarves but he weren't given the power to give them lives and souls. Ilúvatar was the only one who could create but he pitied Aulë seeing how much love he had for the dwarves... Sorta like "Awww, Aulë, you know you weren't suppose to create any living beings, just make nice shiny things.... but all right I'll let you keep them if you promise to take care of them, feed them and walk them regularly..... *poof* Now they are living!
_________________ >>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara
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Post subject: Posted: January 12th, 2006, 9:32 pm |
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Joined: 07 June 2005 Posts: 5272 Location: Texas
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(Ea has a new avatar?!?!?!) though the dwarves aren't very shiny, but in full armor they're VERY shiny. which is why they have chronic racoon/crow problems
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Post subject: Posted: January 13th, 2006, 10:41 am |
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Eä |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 12592
Gender: Female
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[Yes Precious, Eä has a new avatar. It is the dawning of a new era... in which lion and hyena come together, in a great and glorious future! *ascends Pride Rock* Umm.. sorry, wrong movie]
No the dwarves weren't shiny... whick is exactly the reason Aulë should've sticked to er... shiny things!
_________________ >>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara
Last edited by Eä on January 14th, 2006, 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Posted: January 13th, 2006, 10:30 pm |
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Joined: 10 January 2006 Posts: 190 Location: Australia
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*hysterical giggle* no the dwarves aren't very shiny, but they like to MAKE lots of shiny things. and maybe the dwarves would have been shiny if Iluvatar hadn't made them living - Aule could have made them shiny so he wouldn't get in trouble. *nods seriously*
_________________ I LOVE JONHHY DEPP!
Snow white, snow white, o Lady clear,
O Light to us that wander here.
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Post subject: BUT Posted: February 9th, 2006, 4:57 pm |
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Joined: 04 February 2006 Posts: 17 Location: Lothlorien
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i dont know maybe i havent understood something...in the movies they came out of the earth didnt they? oh its so confusing!
_________________ One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
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Mine Corma tuciën te ilye ar morniësse nutiën te
Mi Mornanóre yasse caitar Huini.
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Post subject: Posted: February 9th, 2006, 8:34 pm |
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Joined: 10 September 2005 Posts: 5839 Location: P3X-774, Rohan, Moya, or my TARDIS
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Yeah. I know that they were bred after the innitial orcs were made, but they came out of the earth. weird....
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