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Elves=Orcs!?!?!?!?!?!
http://arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1844		 Page 10 of 13
Author:  ~*ArwenEvenstar*~ [ January 1st, 2006, 9:07 pm ]
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I guess you're right in one way, Ea, there are always two sides to a story. But in this case, Melkor was basically pure evil, and I'm not willing to think that he thought he was doing something good. I just hate Melkor for what he did to those poor elves... it makes me sick.
Author:  LeahwithanH [ January 1st, 2006, 9:33 pm ]
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You must look at both sides for everything. I agree with Ea. He did wrong but he did it for a reason. I personally think the reason was that he wants to make the world his own, and he needs his own people. He needs to mimick somthing, or maim somthing to do that beacuse he does not have the ... *Draws a blank* Flame? the Eternal Flame? man i forget, read it a pretty long time ago. Must. Read. Again.
Author:  Nauriel Rochnur [ January 2nd, 2006, 12:07 am ]
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I can't say for sure because I'm only about 15 pages into the Silmarillioin, but I see Melkor as some one who was misunderstood. He was a genious. Ohhhhh. I came up with agood analogy. But any way, I think of Melekor as the phantom from phantom of the opera. Misunderstood, a genious. But was he ugly? Well, the analogy isn't perfect.
Author:  Eä [ January 2nd, 2006, 5:28 am ]
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~*ArwenEvenstar*~ wrote:
I guess you're right in one way, Ea, there are always two sides to a story. But in this case, Melkor was basically pure evil, and I'm not willing to think that he thought he was doing something good. I just hate Melkor for what he did to those poor elves... it makes me sick.

And yet Melkor came into being through the power of Ilúvatar! If we assume that Ilúvatar is all good, then an offspring of his thought cannot be pure evil! The Valar were given free will and each could use his powers as he thought would be the best. Melkor simply chose another path than the rest.... and the winner writes the story, right ;-)

LeahwithanH, the Valar weren't given the power to create, is that what you mean?
Author:  Nauriel Rochnur [ January 2nd, 2006, 5:36 pm ]
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Okay, my catholic background is coming out again. Tolkin was a christian. I think he related this story to the whole God and Lucifer story. Iluvatar is very powerful "God" and the Ainur are the "angles" Melkor is a very bad "angle" that corrupts beings.

About the Valar not having the power to create. I can't remember his name, but one of the Valar (Ouro..oremo...somthing with an "O"..) He created the dwarves, didn't he?
Author:  Witch_King_of_Angmar [ January 3rd, 2006, 12:04 pm ]
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if any of you have read morgoths ring, you would know that melkor didn't want to rule the world, he wanted to destroy it, which is why he dispersed his power into all the matter of Arda. He would've destroyed his own creations in the end
Author:  Angrod Alcarin [ January 6th, 2006, 6:19 am ]
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Saruman sais orcs were Elves once in FOTR, against the Uruk-hai
Author:  Scrii [ January 6th, 2006, 11:08 pm ]
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*nods* Melkor's an odd little thing. I knew that orcs were tortured from Elves, but I can't remember where I heard that o_O
Author:  Witch_King_of_Angmar [ January 9th, 2006, 9:31 pm ]
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Melkors a nihilistic madman, bent on annihilating everything, including the matter of Arda, even though all he would do is reduce everything to chaos, which could be repaired
Author:  Ardhoniel [ January 10th, 2006, 11:00 pm ]
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Quote:
About the Valar not having the power to create. I can't remember his name, but one of the Valar (Ouro..oremo...somthing with an "O"..) He created the dwarves, didn't he?



yeah, but he couldn't give them life - Illuvatar gave them life, right?

I just started reading the Silmarillan too, and although i already knew that (have no idea where from, lol) but still . . poor elves. I really dislike Melkor - i could tell from the beginning he was Morgoth in the making.


And just as a note,
I HATE FEANOR!!!!!!!!!! XD
Author:  Eä [ January 11th, 2006, 5:30 pm ]
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Ardhoniel wrote:
Quote:
About the Valar not having the power to create. I can't remember his name, but one of the Valar (Ouro..oremo...somthing with an "O"..) He created the dwarves, didn't he?



yeah, but he couldn't give them life - Illuvatar gave them life, right?

Yeah, I think Aulë, the Smith made the dwarves but he weren't given the power to give them lives and souls. Ilúvatar was the only one who could create but he pitied Aulë seeing how much love he had for the dwarves... Sorta like "Awww, Aulë, you know you weren't suppose to create any living beings, just make nice shiny things.... but all right I'll let you keep them if you promise to take care of them, feed them and walk them regularly..... *poof* Now they are living! :angel:
Author:  Witch_King_of_Angmar [ January 12th, 2006, 9:32 pm ]
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(Ea has a new avatar?!?!?!) though the dwarves aren't very shiny, but in full armor they're VERY shiny. which is why they have chronic racoon/crow problems
Author:  Eä [ January 13th, 2006, 10:41 am ]
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[Yes Precious, Eä has a new avatar. It is the dawning of a new era... in which lion and hyena come together, in a great and glorious future! *ascends Pride Rock* Umm.. sorry, wrong movie]

No the dwarves weren't shiny... whick is exactly the reason Aulë should've sticked to er... shiny things!
Author:  Ardhoniel [ January 13th, 2006, 10:30 pm ]
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*hysterical giggle* no the dwarves aren't very shiny, but they like to MAKE lots of shiny things. and maybe the dwarves would have been shiny if Iluvatar hadn't made them living - Aule could have made them shiny so he wouldn't get in trouble. *nods seriously*
Author:  Nimrodel [ February 9th, 2006, 4:57 pm ]
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i dont know maybe i havent understood something...in the movies they came out of the earth didnt they? oh its so confusing!
Author:  Nauriel Rochnur [ February 9th, 2006, 8:34 pm ]
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Yeah. I know that they were bred after the innitial orcs were made, but they came out of the earth. weird....
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