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 Post subject: Noldoli/Gnomes and Elves
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2012, 5:07 pm 
Dwarf
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So I'm reading The Book of Lost Tales Part 1, and I'm confused on whether the Noldoli are Elves or some other creature. Help, anyone?

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 Post subject: Re: Noldoli/Gnomes and Elves
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2012, 5:55 pm 
Gondorian
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They are Elves, yes Felarof. They are also called Gnomes but they are early (externally speaking) literary versions of the Noldor.

Glorfindel is a Gnome here :-D At this point in Tolkien's imagination all the Elves of Gondolin were Gnomes or Noldoli.


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 Post subject: Re: Noldoli/Gnomes and Elves
PostPosted: August 23rd, 2012, 10:47 am 
Dwarf
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Thanks. It's a little confusing.

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 Post subject: Re: Noldoli/Gnomes and Elves
PostPosted: August 23rd, 2012, 1:26 pm 
Gondorian
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This might help too. In The Book of Lost Tales I, Christopher Tolkien looks at the sometimes confusing terminology in The Music of the Ainur, including a chart (page 50) which sets out...

I Teleri (including Inwir) .. .. .. .. Vanyar

II Noldoli (Gnomes) .. .. .. .. Noldor

III Solsosimpi .. .. .. .. Teleri

This simplifies the relation between the early conception and that found in the published Silmarillion. Also the word Gnome has to do with knowledge, and the Elvish word Noldor could be translated as 'The Wise' (note the interesting detail in the Silmarillion that it is recorded that Beor's people called the Elven-king Felagund Nóm 'Wisdom', and his people Nómin 'the Wise').

As you are reading a young Tolkien's story at the moment, if we look back at some very early linguistic ideas...

Quote:
'The use of goblin and gnome as synonymous terms, and the inclusion of noldare 'mole' in the group, suggests that when these entries were first written the general sense of the group was 'earthdweller', the Paracelsian meaning of gnome (...) later the root NOL- 'to know' was added above, a change that now associated the gloss 'gnome' with 'knowledge' (...) The last entry noldare 'mole' didn't fit the changed root sense either, so Tolkien seperated if from the group with a horizontal line and added the root NDOLO- 'delve' below it...'

The Qenya Lexicon, Parma Eldalamberon


Tolkien ultimately dropped 'Gnomes' to refer to the Noldor, and after he published The Lord of the Rings he even mused about changing the meaning of Noldor! But later he seems to have stuck with a certain kind of Wisdom.


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 Post subject: Re: Noldoli/Gnomes and Elves
PostPosted: August 24th, 2012, 10:06 am 
Dwarf
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Wow. How many times have you read this? :p

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 Post subject: Re: Noldoli/Gnomes and Elves
PostPosted: August 24th, 2012, 12:35 pm 
Gondorian
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Quote:
Wow. How many times have you read this?


I can't remember ;-)


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