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 Post subject: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 11th, 2013, 2:41 am 
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I SAW IT LAST NIGHT AT THE MIDNIGHT PREMIERE :-D And I figured we should have a new thread here to share our impressions, ideas and thoughts after seeing the second Hobbit movie for the first time. So be warned, there will be spoilers. And lots of it.

But tell us: what did you like about the movie, and what didn't you like? Any favorite/disappointing parts?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Favorites:

- Thranduil. Whoa. I'm not sure whether I want to punch him for being so self-centered or to swoon at his feet because he's so handsome. Finally an Elf who is not pure good and altruistic: this man knows what's best for his kingdom and is not afraid to work for that.

- Mirkwood architecture. I love how they found yet another way to express the Elvish love for nature and trees in architecture. It looks a bit like Lorién, but less sophisticated and more capricious. Perfect for a strange and dangerous place like Mirkwood.

- Laketown and Bard. Again, I love the architecture (and the accompanying theme music), but also the style of clothes the Laketown people wore. And Bard was absolutely heroic and tragic at the same time.

- Tauriel. What can I say? She was awesome. Even though her actions were sometimes somewhat irrational and driven by aggression or annoyance, she was also elegant and strong. Absolutely no problem that she wasn't in the book: this movie was in need of some female badass-ness and she provided it.

- the Master of Laketown. He was disgusting and rancid, greedy and egoistic. In other words, exactly what I imagined him to be. Stephen Fry did a very good job.

- the scenes in the halls of Erebor. About as non-canon as possible, they were still awesome. I was almost squealing when they managed to operate the Dwarvish machinery in the forge. Of course Dwarves are also impressive fighters, but this tribute to their art was beautiful.

- And of course Smaug. From the little claws on his wings to the wibbly skin under his jaws, he was absolutely perfect and serpent-like and revengeful and wow.


Not so favorites:

- The huge deviations from the book. I completely understand that some parts and scenes had to be added to be able to make three full movies: the book hardly provides material for two movies. But what's with the Kili/Legolas/Tauriel love triangle?! Legolas/Tauriel is not so bad, and a little jealousy from Legolas' side towards Kili was also funny. But Kili getting wounded AND getting healed by Tauriel was bit too much, and frankly also a bit over-dramatic. More Hollywood than Middle Earth.

- Again, Kili getting injured so that he has to stay behind. Good thing they let Fili stay with him though, otherwise it would be too much. But again this was a bit unnecessary dramatic.


I'm still trying to process and remember everything in the movie, and overall I'm happy with it, though not as excited as I was about with AUJ :lost:

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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 11th, 2013, 6:11 pm 
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So Tauriel is cool? Every review says that :) so yay!
Unfortunately, because of ballet, running, and some bothersome decisions,i wount be able to go see DoS until next friday at least :'-(
So keep spoilers coming please! I like to know what to expect.
Also, is the Kili/Tauriel friendship/romance cheesy? I like it for now, but then i havent seen DoS :( and you said that Legolas becomes jealous of Kili? That is hilarious!
So sorry to bother you with so many questions...last one...i promise!
Are these quotes actually in the movie?...
'He is tall for a dwarf."' '"And no less ugly"'
I beg to differ, Legolas :p

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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 12th, 2013, 4:50 am 
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Well you'll have to make up your own mind regarding the Kili/Tauriel relationship ;-) It's different than the Aragorn/Arwen or Eowyn/Faramir relationship, that's for sure! But yet, Legolas does act a bit jealous towards Kili, and those quotes are actually in the movie.

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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 12th, 2013, 10:05 am 
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Thanks!
Unfortunately I have to wait for discount day at the theater,cuz my family has such a big crowd!

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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 12th, 2013, 3:07 pm 
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I did a double-up on DoS on Tuesday. I went to the gala red carpet premiere at 6pm and a few hours later i saw the midnight fan premiere. Still trying to catch up on sleep!

I really like it - more than AUJ. :-)


The places were perfect
Dol Guldur: So great, I mean it's just a ruin of a castle but they managed to turn it into a really great and creepy place with broken staircases and corners and small courtyards

Laketown: Dale was great wth its light, colourful and carefree Southern European atmosphere. Laketown reminded me of Singapore in Pirates of the Carabbean, full of narrow streets and a town practically built on the water

The woodland realm: Agree with Lhun, the architecture was beautiful and I liked how it was tree-based like Lothlórien but still so distinctly different.


Other great stuff
The opening in Bree with a cameo of PJ being a nod to FotR!

The barrel scene and the ensuing fight, even Legolas surfing on an orc and hopping from head to head to cross the river

Generally watching Legolas and Tauriel fighting. I love the smooth, elven style fighting with creativity, speed and precision

Languages - Yay for more elvish, and orc speech and Black speech and dwarvish. I was impressed that all the orc lines were in orc speech whereas Legolas and Tauriel switched to English even though they didn't have that many more lines

Gandalf's duel with Sauron and how they depicted the necromancer

Smaug is beautiful!


Ahh, not so much
The Tauriel/Legolas/Kili love triangle. I completelt agree with Lhun on how out of place and over-dramatic the wounded-Kili-gets-left-behind-and-healed-by-Tauriel

And though the Lair of Smaug + the battle with Smaug scenes were great it wouldn't have hurt if they were a tiny bit shorter!

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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 13th, 2013, 2:28 pm 
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I hope I don't come off as a total Purist or uptight, but overall, I didn't enjoy this film. I actually enjoyed the first one quite a bit more in hindsight.

The Good
It wasn't all bad. There were a lot of little moments that were definitely meant for fans (i.e. Gloin mentioning Gimli, the presence of Legolas in Mirkwood, etc.) There were some great, great throwbacks.

- The sets were great. I could never quite picture in my mind the fact that Laketown is so far north.It's just a realm that isn't discussed all that much. I particularly enjoyed the almost Russia-esque feel of Laketown.
- Beorn & Bard: I couldn't have been happier with these two choices of actors.
- Music as usual.
- The rise of Sauron side story and all of Gandalf's scenes.
- Smaug/Benedict Cumberbatch
- Cool Ring/Bilbo moments
- the cliffhanger

The Bad
- Over the top fight scenes/gratuitous violence.
- Less Martin Freeman
- The last hour of the move (i.e. all of the stuff happening inside Erebor)
- The obvious filler material

The Ugly
- Tauriel
- Tauriel, Legolas, Kili love triangle
- the awful Tauriel-healing-Kili scene (which I felt like was going for a certain amount of similarity to the FotR scene in which Arwen finds Aragorn, sick Frodo, et al. in the woods; but it fell way, way flat unfortunately)
- The stupid orc-Dwarf hunt that carried over from the first movie (I just want that plot to die already).

In some ways, this film felt like deja vu. I could feel a lot of similarities to LotR . . . at other times, I definitely turned to a friend and asked "Are we watching The Hobbit? What movie is this?" Most of my dislike of this film comes from the fact that while it moved faster in general and was very action-y, it didn't feel like there was a lot of meaningful dialogue. So, while the AUA was a little plodding, at least it had some meaningful things to say. DOS, I dunno.


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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 13th, 2013, 6:17 pm 
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Okay, so my first impression! Well, it seems like most of us were in fact agreeing on several aspects of the movie on what was good or bad!

Before going into the movie I had watched very few spoilers, and only two of the trailers/TV spots. I didn't want to go in with certain speculations like I did with the first. That, and I had received the soundtrack special edition before hand, and going by the song titles, I guessed that we would not see the death of Smaug in this movie, but that it would end when he's coming for Laketown!

The Good:

SMAUG!!! I LOVED Smaug! His voice, his CGI, his everything! Though I was surprised that they went for a two-legged dragon design instead of four-legged. But they pulled that off perfectly, and perhaps have a pair of front legs would have indeed been too much.

Spinning Bombur Barrel of Death! (As I called it). Though it was highly unbelievable how he bounced around, when he stopped and started fighting orcs I found incredibly amusing, and I was glad they put that in there!

Beorn was great! My friend wasn't sure they would even put him in there! But I knew they would. I just didn't like how fleeting that part had been! If they needed filler, they could have expanded there and made book purists happy! But still! Beorn was great! (Plus the ponies!!!)

Bard. I loved Bard in the books. I loved Bard in Desolation of Smaug. A grim man of dark tidings indeed, bard was exactly what I expected and imagine. I loved him greatly!

Laketown, Mirkwood Elves' Halls, Beorn's home, all great things!

Any moment that directly quoted the books!

"Who is this ugly goblin-like creature?" "That be my son, Gimli" <I'm SO glad that added that!

Legolas was bad@ss!

The music! Especially Laketown's theme (song is titled Thrice Welcome, btw), and the credit song I See Fire by Ed Sheeran!

Disliked
TaurielxKili... I was weary of the idea of TaurielxLegolas, but to find Kili in the mix??? No NO NO NO and NOT! *thumbsdown* Felt like fanfiction, if you know what I mean. Plus, in the Lord of the Rings book, isn't Kingsfoil's power only really known by the King himself? (aka Aragorn?) If I recall correctly, only Aragorn aught to know its effects! The kingsfoil part tried to mirror FotR, but failed in so many ways (Like in the movie the Athelas didn't heal Frodo(and Arwen couldn't do anything about that).. they had to take him to Rivendell, so why was Tauriel able to heal him on the spot? (Also, for anyone familiar with Skyrim: "I used to be a dwarf adventurer like you until I took an arrow to the knee...")

Azog and orc chase story line.

Some of the CGI. I'm going to college for CGI, but my eyes aren't exactly trained for it, yet, but I still keep an eye out on it. There were places where they CGI made me wince!! But then again, I feel so sorry for their digital artists... 42FPS??? That's nuts!!! 24fps is perfect, and already taxing on CGIist! PJ you nuts for the 42FPS! It makes nothing better!! The only part that was completely flawless in CGI was the landscapes and Smaug, I swear!

Dwarves splitting up so Bofur, Oin, Fili, and Kili not being in Erebor!

The final fight with Smaug... Though I do understand they needed some kind of Climax, and seeing the dwarf forges at work was awesome! But... yeah...

Finding out that the black arrow will not be shot from a hand bow, but a dwarven bow, and Bard is not going to be told about the hole in Smaug's chest by a thrush! Am I too much of a book purist or something that this little fact bugged me?

Okay, this post was long enough, I'll stop now!

Though I will say, I plan to go for a second viewing as soon as I can!

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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 14th, 2013, 1:56 am 
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Didn't like the love triangle thing. The mention of Gloin's little 'photo album' was kinda funny. There were a lot of Elf fight scenes in a movie pretty much staring Dwarves. Thorin is still awesome. Did they fight Orcs with tree branches?

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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 14th, 2013, 2:08 am 
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This is the first time I have been disappointed with one of these films. Even my brother, who can generally forgive shortcomings in films, feels this was not at good as An Unexpected Journey, and that will never be as good as LotR.

It was far too long, with too much focus on stuff that was just filler material with nothing good happening. I think there was much too much CGI and not enough of the classic Weta style (i.e miniatures, bigatures, actors in prosthetics). I don't think visually these Hobbit films match up to LotR for all the CGI they use now instead of the Weta department, but this was far worse than AUJ for visuals.

Liked:

- Smaug, he looked awesome (although I missed the jewel encrusted belly). I think they spent all the money on him and to hell with everything else.
- Gandalf and the Necromancer - really clever how they made the Eye of Sauron appear and how the Necromancer became the pupil etc. That was very creative.
- Bard - he was pretty cool
- The music - it's a given that the music is good
- Tauriel - as a warrior Elf she is actually not too bad but read further.....
- Thranduil - the way he looked and dressed was awesome but he came over as being a cruel Elf and not a very good leader. I used to think Elrond was the only miserable Elf.
- Gloin's family photos - THAT was a VERY nice touch. Well played PJ.

The Bad

- Smaug's voice - while I loved his voice I was disappointed that BC's voice was so distorted that if you didn't know it was him, you wouldn't have a clue. Felt a bit short changed as I was looking forward to hearing him.
- Legolas - I can see why he came back, but honestly he is far too miserable and although his fighting scenes where pretty awesome he is only here for you-know-what
- Tauriel - the only reason she is here is so she can be a love interest and that is a shame. On the other hand, having warrior elves involved is just making the story more complicated and prolonging the eventual outcome. Both her and Legolas would be more welcome if they didn't get in the way of the flow of the story.
- The Kili/Tauriel dungeon scene - *beep*? That took up like 7 minutes and it was purely nothing at all. And also I am SICK of the stupid lines the Dwarves get given that are more like 21st century American comedy "would you like to see what's in my trousers?"... "there might be nothing there". HAHAHAHAHA. Not.
- The love triangle - Please no. This is making the absolute historical friendship between an elf and Dwarf seemingly unimportant if both species can fall in love so easily.
- Beorn - totally disappointed with him. His look both as a man and bear are not what I imagined from illustrations etc and I didn't understand what he was saying half the time.
- The Master of Lake Town and his minions - really I don't care about the politics and the elections and the double dealing. Just extra stuff that is unimportant to me.
- The orc chase - the whole scene was over the top and too long. How many more orcs did Legolas and Co have to kill? They must have killed dozens and there just as many left? And while I chuckled at the reference to Legolas using an orc as a skateboard, the whole standing on Dwarves heads' whilst floating down a river, firing at orcs was even more stupid than the Oliphaunt battle. And then Bombur doing his little twirly barrel thing? No. The CGI did not look that great either, and as it's to me anyway, such an iconic scene, I would have preferred the excitement came from a treacherous journey on the river, with lots of twists and turns, rather than a million orcs attacking them.
- Splitting the Dwarves up to the love triangle continues - aw, please.
- Similar things to LoTR - like when Tauriel asks of Legolas if they are to leave everyone else to fend for themselves etc. It felt very much like, to quote Frodo, "we've been here before". And while they might try and tell us they wanted it to tie in with LotR, I just think it was lazy writing.


Always trust a review from dear JF-ish-ness. :) Right-o. Everything I said, but put much better. This trilogy really is attempting to be a copy of LotR, but falling far, far flat.

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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 14th, 2013, 2:35 am 
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Having Kili get shot I didn't like. He and Fili are the heirs and should have gone to Erebor.

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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 14th, 2013, 7:46 pm 
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Just been to see it.

The good:
The music

The bad:
Everything else

The absolute worst and the writers need to be shot for the sake of humanity:
Tauriel
The love triangle
That healing scene


Will write a proper write up when I'm not shaking with anger and when I'm calm enough that I don't need to use a swear word three times in a sentence.

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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 14th, 2013, 10:25 pm 
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Nienna Anárion wrote:
Having Kili get shot I didn't like. He and Fili are the heirs and should have gone to Erebor.

Yeah, I didn't really like it when Thorin refused to let Kili come, and while the love triangle was kind of........... interesting, it was kind of unnecessary especially the "aren't you going to search my trousers? I could have anything down there" "or nothing" scene. But other than that the movie was great!

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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 15th, 2013, 5:16 am 
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Johnny's Fan wrote:
This is the first time I have been disappointed with one of these films. Even my brother, who can generally forgive shortcomings in films, feels this was not at good as An Unexpected Journey, and that will never be as good as LotR.

It was far too long, with too much focus on stuff that was just filler material with nothing good happening. I think there was much too much CGI and not enough of the classic Weta style (i.e miniatures, bigatures, actors in prosthetics). I don't think visually these Hobbit films match up to LotR for all the CGI they use now instead of the Weta department, but this was far worse than AUJ for visuals.

Liked:

- Smaug, he looked awesome (although I missed the jewel encrusted belly). I think they spent all the money on him and to hell with everything else.
- Gandalf and the Necromancer - really clever how they made the Eye of Sauron appear and how the Necromancer became the pupil etc. That was very creative.
- Bard - he was pretty cool
- The music - it's a given that the music is good
- Tauriel - as a warrior Elf she is actually not too bad but read further.....
- Thranduil - the way he looked and dressed was awesome but he came over as being a cruel Elf and not a very good leader. I used to think Elrond was the only miserable Elf.
- Gloin's family photos - THAT was a VERY nice touch. Well played PJ.

The Bad

- Smaug's voice - while I loved his voice I was disappointed that BC's voice was so distorted that if you didn't know it was him, you wouldn't have a clue. Felt a bit short changed as I was looking forward to hearing him.
- Legolas - I can see why he came back, but honestly he is far too miserable and although his fighting scenes where pretty awesome he is only here for you-know-what
- Tauriel - the only reason she is here is so she can be a love interest and that is a shame. On the other hand, having warrior elves involved is just making the story more complicated and prolonging the eventual outcome. Both her and Legolas would be more welcome if they didn't get in the way of the flow of the story.
- The Kili/Tauriel dungeon scene - *beep*? That took up like 7 minutes and it was purely nothing at all. And also I am SICK of the stupid lines the Dwarves get given that are more like 21st century American comedy "would you like to see what's in my trousers?"... "there might be nothing there". HAHAHAHAHA. Not.
- The love triangle - Please no. This is making the absolute historical friendship between an elf and Dwarf seemingly unimportant if both species can fall in love so easily.
- Beorn - totally disappointed with him. His look both as a man and bear are not what I imagined from illustrations etc and I didn't understand what he was saying half the time.
- The Master of Lake Town and his minions - really I don't care about the politics and the elections and the double dealing. Just extra stuff that is unimportant to me.
- The orc chase - the whole scene was over the top and too long. How many more orcs did Legolas and Co have to kill? They must have killed dozens and there just as many left? And while I chuckled at the reference to Legolas using an orc as a skateboard, the whole standing on Dwarves heads' whilst floating down a river, firing at orcs was even more stupid than the Oliphaunt battle. And then Bombur doing his little twirly barrel thing? No. The CGI did not look that great either, and as it's to me anyway, such an iconic scene, I would have preferred the excitement came from a treacherous journey on the river, with lots of twists and turns, rather than a million orcs attacking them.
- Splitting the Dwarves up to the love triangle continues - aw, please.
- Similar things to LoTR - like when Tauriel asks of Legolas if they are to leave everyone else to fend for themselves etc. It felt very much like, to quote Frodo, "we've been here before". And while they might try and tell us they wanted it to tie in with LotR, I just think it was lazy writing.


That's almost exactly my opinion on it.
Except I really didn't like Tauriel at all. I know part of it is just me being upset they created a new character, but even trying to ignore that I didn't care about her at all. :/
And I really hated the scene where she's healing Kili. It seemed like they were purposely copying the scene where Arwen heals Frodo... which shouldn't have been in that film either, but that's beside the point. XP It just made me roll my eyes.


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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 15th, 2013, 12:51 pm 
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^ You see the scene with Frodo and Arwen seemed to me like it was part of the book (I hadn't read FotR when I saw the film) and although part of the reason I dislike the Kili/Tauriel healing scene is because I KNOW it isn't in the book..... it's also... what's the point? We have seen this before. To me anyway, Arwen's scene to a newbie, just gave weight to the power and beauty of the Elves. Tauriel's scene was just copying and adding more weight to the Kili/Tauriel/Legolas love wagon, which is a REALLY dumb storyline. Arwen was a brief moment and then POOF it was gone.

But I can see it now....


Kili: Why did you come back?

Tauriel: To save you

Kili: Oh, OK.


30 minutes later........

Kili: Why did you save me?

Tauriel: Because we Elves should not turn our backs on those in need

Kili: Cool


10 minutes later....

Kili: Are you sure that's the reason you came back?

Tauriel: Do you call me a liar Dwarf?

Kili: Nope.


15 minutes....

Kili: I think you came back because you love me

Tauriel: *stomps off* Ungrateful Dwarf!

Kili: Oops


20 minutes later.....

Legolas: What did you say to Tauriel?

Kili: Nothing.

Legolas: YOU LIE! *stomps off*

Kili: Whatever


30 minutes later.....

Kili: I'm sorry for what I said Tauriel

Tauriel: That is alright my taller-than-average-looks-like-a-Ranger-Dwarven friend. There is something I need to tell you.

Kili: *eagerly* Yes?

Tauriel: You have food in your beard.

Kili: -_-


Final scene when everything is going down and no one has a moment because it is so busy and frenetic.

Kili: Come with me.

Tauriel: *looks at slaughter before her" Alright.

Kili: We are far away from the battle and the storyline so now I can tell you that I love you Tauriel.

Tauriel: *shock* OH! I thought it was just from my side, because I love you too Kili even though our races hate each other and I usually go for tall blonde people.

Kili: Well I could dye my hair and you could grow and beard and then we'd both be happier.

Tauriel: -_- Goodbye Dwarf.

Kili: What did I say??

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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 15th, 2013, 3:32 pm 
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I think I've figured out how to describe that film.

It was not an adaptation of the Hobbit. It wasn't even loosely based upon the Hobbit.
It was not Tolkien. It was not Middle-earth. I don't know what in hell it was but it was not Tolkien.

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 Post subject: Re: Desolation of Smaug - First impressions
PostPosted: December 15th, 2013, 3:40 pm 
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Seren wrote:
I think I've figured out how to describe that film.

It was not an adaptation of the Hobbit. It wasn't even loosely based upon the Hobbit.
It was not Tolkien. It was not Middle-earth. I don't know what in hell it was but it was not Tolkien.


I had the same feeling while watching it. It seemed more like a stupid modern American comedy/action film than anything. :/

They did an amazing job with LotR and while there were things I didn't like, it at least didn't stray that far from the books and it totally felt like Middle-earth.


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