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PostPosted: January 7th, 2006, 3:45 pm 
Balrog
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Very true, so Boromir's death is essential, for many reasons, and a few many of us will most likely over look.


Out of subject:
I want my book back... and I want the movies. lol. My book is packed away still. *sigh* stupid moving. And the movies... well erm I never got around to buying them, and I've only seen FotR three times, TTT once, and RotK once, so I'm relying on my vague memory of things for this discussion...

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PostPosted: January 7th, 2006, 4:28 pm 
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Get the extended editions then.... worth every penny *winks*

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PostPosted: January 7th, 2006, 4:41 pm 
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*grins* That is my plan...

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PostPosted: January 7th, 2006, 6:16 pm 
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Arrgh, I leave you two alone for a second and immediately you post half a page!!! Guys chill!!

Aemornion wrote:
Eä wrote:
Yes, people (Rohan and Gondor) might have been speaking ill of the White Lady but simply because they didn't know much about elves, and people fear the unknown. And Lothlorien was off limit for mortal races.

Yes, this can be true, but why have the elves put such distance from the Men and dwarves alike. I cannot recall a place where only men were welcome, instead we have that example with Lothlorien. Here goes to prove once again that Elves consider themself superiour to other races.... But enough of this matter, offtopic again

I never disagreed on this... sadly enough there might be a lot of truth in it. (*sniff* *bleeding heart*). But elves consider themselves superior - and they aresuperior. They live longer (forever is a long time), can better resist heat, cold, diseases, they are wiser, better craftsmen and so on. When Sauron grew stronger many elves had already left Middle-earth and the remaining would naturally gather around the Rings of Power, Rivendell and Lothlorien. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it explained in the book that especially Lothlorien had troubles keeping orcs out. Sauron doesn't just regain his former strength overnight, this is happening over a long time, and all lands and people would have to be more aware of the change. We see that in Rohan, Gondor and even the Shire. People stick to their own and become suspicious towards strangers. Lothlorien no least, after all they have Nenya to protect. They would be safer by keeping to themselves.
*realizes this is turning into a defence of the elves*
Eh.. it's just like terrorism today... The world leaders agree to numerous rules and regulations but who do they bother most... ordinary people! *cough* Off topic, I know.

Aemornion wrote:
Eä wrote:
Tolkien obviously killed Boromir for reasons concerning the general plot. (He made Boromir trigger the breaking of the fellowship because he was tepmted by the ring and also had to get rid of the line of the Steward to clear the way for Aragorn.)


I wouldnt agree with this! Why get rid of Boromir since Faramir is also the rightful Steward (Boromir was 5 years older so he was entitled for the task, like any firstborn)? Okay, maybe it was for the plot and the fact to prove to all how the ring is dangerous alone (witch i think was the main reason why Tolkien "killed" him)

As far as my Gondorian history is correct, if the King returns and is proven as the rightful heir then the stewards do not have any more goverment over Gondor, only thing they can govern are the countries that are the part of the Gondorian empire (Ithilien, Anorien, Dol Amroth, Belfallas, Lossnarch...) and they are then not called stewards but princes. Faramir became later the Prince of Ithillien after the king returned....same would had been with Boromir

I knew you would have to argue against that! *grins*
First of all I agree with Silm that PJ probably wanted to show how the ring was treacherous and twisted peoples minds. (Interestingly enough Aragorn is the only one who doesn't make a fuss about the being tempted by the ring like Bilbo, Gandalf, Galadriel, Boromir...).
Boromir was born to become the Steward of Gondor, that was all his life was about. The responsability, the values, the whole rule a country-thing would be a part of his education to prepare him for his future job. There hadn't been a King for ages so the Steward would be regarded as king both by the people and by themselves. (am I completely wrong if I remember Tolkien putting something like the line of the steward was weakened because the Númenorean blood had been mixed with common blood over the years?)
I understand why Boromir is sceptical... How likely is it that Isildur's heir happens to walk right out of the blue wawing about the Reforged Sword?
Boromir descends from a long line of stewards who did a great job in ruling the country, how likely is it that a filthy ranger (sorry Aragorn) would prove just half as good?
Faramir's personality is different and also he is not born to bear the same heavy responsability. And he gets the pretty blonde, whereas Boromir dies, so he better be happy!!! (no one dares say this is a thin argument!!)

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PostPosted: January 7th, 2006, 6:34 pm 
Balrog
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Eä wrote:
I never disagreed on this... sadly enough there might be a lot of truth in it. (*sniff* *bleeding heart*). But elves consider themselves superior - and they aresuperior. They live longer (forever is a long time), can better resist heat, cold, diseases, they are wiser, better craftsmen and so on. When Sauron grew stronger many elves had already left Middle-earth and the remaining would naturally gather around the Rings of Power, Rivendell and Lothlorien. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it explained in the book that especially Lothlorien had troubles keeping orcs out. Sauron doesn't just regain his former strength overnight, this is happening over a long time, and all lands and people would have to be more aware of the change. We see that in Rohan, Gondor and even the Shire. People stick to their own and become suspicious towards strangers. Lothlorien no least, after all they have Nenya to protect. They would be safer by keeping to themselves.
*realizes this is turning into a defence of the elves*
Eh.. it's just like terrorism today... The world leaders agree to numerous rules and regulations but who do they bother most... ordinary people! *cough* Off topic, I know.


True... Even the hobbits looked darkly upon Gandalf and other strangers, so why bother the elves about not quite being fond of men and dwarves coming into their domain? I do, however, like the book better in this matter, since they were more casual about the strangers, and it was much less drastic! But this is the movie we're talking about... The elves were more 'protective' and that's what sets them apart. I mean, the others, such as the hobbits, might look darkly upon strangers, but they do nothing, and look where it got them! They were taken over, and it was up to Frodo and the others to come back and show them how to chase the invaders out... well I'm getting a little ahead of myself here... point is, the elves of Lorien were suspicious, and protective, and it saved them...


Eä wrote:
I knew you would have to argue against that!
First of all I agree with Silm that PJ probably wanted to show how the ring was treacherous and twisted peoples minds. (Interestingly enough Aragorn is the only one who doesn't make a fuss about the being tempted by the ring like Bilbo, Gandalf, Galadriel, Boromir...).
Boromir was born to become the Steward of Gondor, that was all his life was about. The responsability, the values, the whole rule a country-thing would be a part of his education to prepare him for his future job. There hadn't been a King for ages so the Steward would be regarded as king both by the people and by themselves. (am I completely wrong if I remember Tolkien putting something like the line of the steward was weakened because the Númenorean blood had been mixed with common blood over the years?)
I understand why Boromir is sceptical... How likely is it that Isildur's heir happens to walk right out of the blue wawing about the Reforged Sword?
Boromir descends from a long line of stewards who did a great job in ruling the country, how likely is it that a filthy ranger (sorry Aragorn) would prove just half as good?
Faramir's personality is different and also he is not born to bear the same heavy responsability. And he gets the pretty blonde, whereas Boromir dies, so he better be happy!!! (no one dares say this is a thin argument!!)


erm... my head's spinning on that one... too much at once for my poor brain, which is craving to read the book again! :blink: ... All true, but I'll leave it at that :-D

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PostPosted: January 7th, 2006, 7:13 pm 
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What is there to say Silm, you seem to agree so far! :angel:

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PostPosted: January 8th, 2006, 5:46 am 
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Okay, women on rant again... will read it through and give my statement soon....

And since we are talking in the movie section, ignore the book facts but let the movies guide your decisions *smiles*

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PostPosted: January 8th, 2006, 11:08 am 
Balrog
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Drat :annoyed2: That's it... next time at wal-mart, I'm gettin the movie..... *twitch* it would help to have some money to spare though :bounce:

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PostPosted: January 8th, 2006, 11:40 am 
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I do realize I was a lot off topic with my post, however, I was replying to off topic topics(!) and since none of the debaters seem to have further comments I consider the discussion closed for now. :angel:

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PostPosted: March 24th, 2006, 2:33 pm 
Balrog
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Golden belt? Why did he take it for?. I remember there was not anything made us curious about the belt.

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PostPosted: March 24th, 2006, 4:56 pm 
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I didn't even realize that Boromir didn't get a gift in the movies. Wow that shows how much I pay attention. :duh: .

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PostPosted: September 30th, 2006, 11:15 pm 
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When i read the book(i read the books after i saw the movies)
i then realized that boromir didn't get a gift in the movies. does anyone know why PJ left him out?

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Last edited by Lady of Taniquetil on October 5th, 2006, 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: October 5th, 2006, 5:24 pm 
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because PJ doesn't realize that boromir is special...well, he's not as special as legolas or the hobbits, but PJ needs to like apoligize ot the public for all his retarded mistakes

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PostPosted: October 5th, 2006, 5:45 pm 
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WOW. "harsh words" ~quote from my funny and cool teacher.

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PostPosted: October 5th, 2006, 5:48 pm 
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hehehe, i no the teacher and he got those words from two annoying girls

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PostPosted: October 5th, 2006, 5:58 pm 
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no. he said it first. they copied him

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