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What was Boromir referring to?
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Author:  Guard of the Citadel [ December 17th, 2007, 1:21 am ]
Post subject:  What was Boromir referring to?
In the council of Elrond, during Boromir's speech, he makes this statement: "One does not simply walk into Mordor. It's black gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep. And the Great Eye is ever watchful."

What do you think he is referring to when he says: "There is evil there that does not sleep"? I have a couple of theories of my own, but I want to hear what all of you think.

Any takers?
Author:  Lady of Taniquetil [ December 18th, 2007, 6:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
well i think he's basically referring to the Eye, but he could be talking about how the evil the place is in general. i don't know, i've never really thought about it. what do u think?
Author:  Guard of the Citadel [ December 18th, 2007, 7:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Lady of Taniquetil wrote:
well i think he's basically referring to the Eye, but he could be talking about how the evil the place is in general. i don't know, i've never really thought about it. what do u think?


Well, to me, it couldn't be the Eye because he mentions it with the very next sentence. So it has to refer to something else. Before I give my theory, let's see if we have any more takers......
Author:  Lady of Taniquetil [ December 18th, 2007, 7:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
lol. yeah that's true. hehe
Author:  silfa [ December 18th, 2007, 8:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, I stand by you all with the Great Eye thing. But there are other evils than orcs, there's the Nazgul and the Black Riders. And I guess there's like...trolls and stuff. I think Mordor is just an all around bad place!
Author:  Guard of the Citadel [ December 19th, 2007, 12:17 am ]
Post subject: 
silfa wrote:
Well, I stand by you all with the Great Eye thing. But there are other evils than orcs, there's the Nazgul and the Black Riders. And I guess there's like...trolls and stuff. I think Mordor is just an all around bad place!


Once again, I must point out that it couldn't have been the Great Eye, as Boromir refers to the Great Eye in the very next sentence: "There is evil there that does not sleep. And the Great Eye is ever watchful." The "and" connects the two sentences together. However, the thought of the Nazgul is a good one. The Nazgul are the Black Riders, by the way.

Okay, one of my theories was Shelob.
Author:  silfa [ December 19th, 2007, 3:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
But wasn't Shelob on the border of Mordor?
Author:  Guard of the Citadel [ December 19th, 2007, 8:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
silfa wrote:
But wasn't Shelob on the border of Mordor?


EXACTLY!!!! Look again at what Boromir said: "One does not simply walk into Mordor. It's black gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep. And the Great Eye is ever watchful." He's referring to the edge of or the preimeter of Modor being guarded by more than just Orcs. I would say and it was referred to in the book that Sauron didn't worry very much about that one Pass because Shelob guarded it well. And if she ate a few of his Orcs in the process; well, that was okay with him as long as she was on guard.
Author:  ~Elfin Maiden~ [ December 19th, 2007, 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What was Boromir referring to?
Guard of the Citadel wrote:
In the council of Elrond, during Boromir's speech, he makes this statement: "One does not simply walk into Mordor. It's black gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep. And the Great Eye is ever watchful."

What do you think he is referring to when he says: "There is evil there that does not sleep"? I have a couple of theories of my own, but I want to hear what all of you think.

Any takers?


Well, a friend of mine and myself were talking about this the other day and came up wit this :when Boromir states that the Black Gates are guarded by more than Orcs he possibly could also mean The Watchers or the Silent Watchers. These were two carved figures that guarded the gateway of the Tower of Cirith Ungol with a strange and malevolent will. Each was formed of three bodies - one guarding the way into the tower, one the way out, and the third staring across the gateway itself. Their faces were the faces of vultures, with eyes of black stone. They had the power to block entry to the tower, or escape from it, through the force of their will alone, and were able to send up a shrill alarm call if their guard was breached. Shelob was also very near to that tower.
Author:  Aerandir [ December 20th, 2007, 6:27 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm rather certain that he wasn't talking about Shelob, but rather about the myriad of creatures that Sauron had under his domination, and perhaps the Watchers, but also--Minas Morgul had unsleeping evil in it as well. So perhaps it was the Nazgûl, perhaps it was something else that he was referring to, but I'm pretty much absolutely certain that he wasn't referring to Shelob.
Author:  ~Elfin Maiden~ [ December 20th, 2007, 8:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Aerandir wrote:
I'm rather certain that he wasn't talking about Shelob, but rather about the myriad of creatures that Sauron had under his domination, and perhaps the Watchers, but also--Minas Morgul had unsleeping evil in it as well. So perhaps it was the Nazgûl, perhaps it was something else that he was referring to, but I'm pretty much absolutely certain that he wasn't referring to Shelob.


You may be right but we don't know for certain. Sauron had as you said a myriad of creatures and as for Shelob she still was an evil that lurked there. She haunted a network of tunnels watching the pass of Cirith Ungol, eking a living on the hapless Orcs of Sauron. She had offspring of her own, too, smaller than she but with a cruel intelligence, that spread throughout the Ephel Dúath and north into Mirkwood. It was creatures like these that Bilbo encountered in The Hobbit, and through fighting them that his sword acquired its name Sting. And we will soon get a chance to see these nasty little spiders when P. J. makes The Hobbit!! :)
Author:  silfa [ December 21st, 2007, 12:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Did Boromir even know about Shelob?
Author:  Guard of the Citadel [ December 21st, 2007, 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What was Boromir referring to?
~Elfin Maiden~ wrote:
Guard of the Citadel wrote:
In the council of Elrond, during Boromir's speech, he makes this statement: "One does not simply walk into Mordor. It's black gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep. And the Great Eye is ever watchful."

What do you think he is referring to when he says: "There is evil there that does not sleep"? I have a couple of theories of my own, but I want to hear what all of you think.

Any takers?


Well, a friend of mine and myself were talking about this the other day and came up wit this :when Boromir states that the Black Gates are guarded by more than Orcs he possibly could also mean The Watchers or the Silent Watchers. These were two carved figures that guarded the gateway of the Tower of Cirith Ungol with a strange and malevolent will. Each was formed of three bodies - one guarding the way into the tower, one the way out, and the third staring across the gateway itself. Their faces were the faces of vultures, with eyes of black stone. They had the power to block entry to the tower, or escape from it, through the force of their will alone, and were able to send up a shrill alarm call if their guard was breached. Shelob was also very near to that tower.


Well, I agree with the above as this was my second theory....the Watchers.

@Silfa ~ Well, Faramir did! In the book, Faramir warns Frodo and Sam NOT to go to Cirith Ungol. His reason: "We of Gondor do not ever pass east of the Road in these days, and none of us younger men has ever done so, nor has ony us set foot upon the Mountain of Shadow. Of them we know only old report and the rumour of bygone days. But there is some dark terror that dwells in the passes above Minas Morgal. If Cirith Ungol is named, old men and masters of lore will blanch and fall silent." Thus, if Faramir was aware of this, certainly Boromir was also!
Author:  silfa [ December 30th, 2007, 9:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Are the Silent Watchers alive?
Author:  Guard of the Citadel [ December 31st, 2007, 12:14 am ]
Post subject: 
silfa wrote:
Are the Silent Watchers alive?


Interesting question.....I would say no more than the Nazgul are "alive". They are an "entity" of the Dark Lord, servants that are always on duty, constantly on guard.
Author:  Teh FF [ January 1st, 2008, 11:06 am ]
Post subject: 
silfa wrote:
Did Boromir even know about Shelob?


I don't think he exactly knew about her, but he had probably heard rumours about some evil dwelling there.


Aerandir wrote:
I'm rather certain that he wasn't talking about Shelob, but rather about the myriad of creatures that Sauron had under his domination, and perhaps the Watchers, but also--Minas Morgul had unsleeping evil in it as well. So perhaps it was the Nazgûl, perhaps it was something else that he was referring to, but I'm pretty much absolutely certain that he wasn't referring to Shelob.


I also think he was rather referring to all those creatures under Sauron's dominion. There must have been many more dreadful things than Frodo and Sam met during their journey.
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