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Post subject: Posted: March 11th, 2007, 2:18 pm |
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Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 15181 Location: Minas Morgul
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I can't see how a person can be selfish in a good way. The descriptive trait of being selfish has always been a negative connotation. I didn't see Elrond as being selfish as it has never benefited HIM, he did those things and acted on father-based instinct.
I love Glorfindel, but again, I can see why Arwen was necessary.
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Post subject: Posted: March 11th, 2007, 3:25 pm |
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Joined: 02 January 2006 Posts: 5728 Location: Mithlond Country:
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Well, I suppose it is more clear to say that he was selfish for a good reason. It was father instinct, but I think it had a lot to do with him wanting Arwen to stay with him rather than losing her to Aragorn, instead of being more concerned about her being hurt.
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Post subject: Posted: March 11th, 2007, 7:17 pm |
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Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 15181 Location: Minas Morgul
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My impression was that he was actually trying to shelter her from hurt as he plainly noted was inevitable because of the differences in blood from Arwen to Aragorn. He had reasoned, she would end up lonely and sad when Aragorn dies from old age, very different from the factors she grew up with. And he was willing to let her be a little bit now than an even bigger hurt down the long road.
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Post subject: Posted: March 12th, 2007, 2:22 am |
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Joined: 02 January 2006 Posts: 5728 Location: Mithlond Country:
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Yes, that was part of it, but he knew that that wasn't what she wanted. She was willing to take the risk, and he wasn't. He didn't want there to be any chance of hurt, even if merely separating her from Aragorn [forever] would have been a grievous wound in itself.
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Post subject: Posted: March 12th, 2007, 6:00 pm |
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Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 15181 Location: Minas Morgul
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There's also the factor of his lost faith in men. He saw that Aragorn couldn't've possibly accomplish this mission and so he wanted to shelter Arwen from that, the grief of losing him. He put his faith in Isildur and he had failed him, so his faith is lost and so then there would be no choice whether or not he would "risk" it.
So I wouldn't say it was "selfish", not in the least. It was just simply reasonable by his point of view.
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Post subject: Posted: March 13th, 2007, 2:43 am |
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Joined: 02 January 2006 Posts: 5728 Location: Mithlond Country:
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Well, I was kind of saying from my point of view, not his, but I understand what you're meaning.
I still wish PJ hadn't portrayed Elrond like that. He didn't seem quite like how I imagined him from the books. Hugo Weaving was brilliant as an actor, but I still think that Elrond wasn't correctly portrayed.
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Post subject: Posted: March 13th, 2007, 9:58 pm |
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Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 15181 Location: Minas Morgul
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If you were making a point from <i>your</i> point of view, it seems a bit biased to mark a character as seemingly selfish (in a good way) doesn't it?
Elrond was fine for me, [shrug]. At points, I was a fangirl of his.
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Post subject: Posted: March 14th, 2007, 2:42 am |
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Joined: 02 January 2006 Posts: 5728 Location: Mithlond Country:
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....well, maybe it was a little bit biased.
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Post subject: Posted: March 16th, 2007, 10:45 pm |
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Joined: 10 June 2005 Posts: 1871 Location: Minas Tirith Country:
Gender: Female
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Arwen. Girl Power!
_________________ Faith isn't the ability to believe long and far into the misty future. It's simply taking God at His Word and taking the next step Joni Erickson Tada
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Post subject: Posted: April 29th, 2007, 6:01 am |
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Joined: 07 October 2006 Posts: 2474 Location: From the north I have come, need has driven me and I have passed the doors to the path of the M6
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Glorfindel methinks. He just feels like the right kinda guy to defy some of the most evil creatures in middle earth. He would look REALLY cool, especially on his horse, sword in hand * writes all this down in case it turns into a side tale*
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Post subject: Posted: April 29th, 2007, 8:45 am |
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Joined: 02 January 2006 Posts: 5728 Location: Mithlond Country:
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My thoughts exactly. Finally someone agrees with me that Glorfindel should've done that scene.
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Post subject: Posted: May 4th, 2007, 3:52 pm |
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Joined: 07 October 2006 Posts: 2474 Location: From the north I have come, need has driven me and I have passed the doors to the path of the M6
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To me anyways, Arwen does seem a little bit out of place. Im willing to make a compromise.Glorfindel wielding Hadhafang instead. It just makes sense as he was sent by the Valar to assist in the war against Sauron, that he should fight his greatest servants, as he did in the first age.
Aerandir and i agree on something????!!!! ( dies with shock)
_________________ "This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "
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Post subject: Posted: May 27th, 2007, 3:25 pm |
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Joined: 06 May 2007 Posts: 93
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Peace wrote: Ah yes, the old issues of Glorfindel Vs. Arwen. *sighs* Well, I have to say that my opinion definately goes toward Glorfindel. My reasons? Well, for one I think it is TOTALLY unrealistic that Arwen would have gone out to save the hobbits. Why? 1. She was alone. 2. She was Elrond's only daughter. 3. She was princess of Rivendell. 4. She was the Evenstar of her people. 5. There were NAZGUL out there. 6. There were probably a MILLION other MALE elves out there who would have been PERFECT for that job! (a soldier, a scout, a member of the COUNCIL even, but not Elrond's youngest child!!) see what I mean? Not to mention the fact that I was really upset when she took credit for the water spell done by Elrond (and Gandalf for the awesome horse effect). Actually, I found a picture that actually describes this very well. See what you think... Don't you love the expressions on their faces? This art was done by Rachel E. Johnstone, all rights reserved. But mind you, this doesn't mean I totally hate Arwen! It's just...the way her character was portrayed in the movie was a little...iffy. One minute she can fight off five Ring Wraiths, and the next moment she's helplessly dying, her fate "tied to the fate of the Ring" which is just a LITTLE much in my opinion. But I do agree with the point that this made her character a little bit...bigger in the film, which helped a lot...but still. I suppose nothing can really be perfect, eh? But anyway, enough rambling.
ok, all of these reasons are true, but still why wouldn't she? she is not some waek poor lady who could not defend herself. she is a princess but that doesn't mean that she's helpless, i mean i am sad that glorfindel wasn't in the movie, but i think that either way it was ok to put arwen in the scene.
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Post subject: Posted: May 30th, 2007, 12:05 am |
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Joined: 06 May 2007 Posts: 93
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Aerlinn wrote: ^ hehehe funny pic! I love it I'm not helping , I know. *laughs on* :roll:
i know, i like the picture also... but i stay at my opinion though.
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Post subject: Posted: August 2nd, 2007, 10:41 pm |
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Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 1186 Location: Somewhere far away
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I am going to keep back my extreme opinions and simply say that, while I understand WHY they replaced Glorfindel, I think they should have used different tactics and kept Glorfindel.
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Post subject: Posted: September 10th, 2007, 6:27 pm |
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Joined: 18 August 2007 Posts: 226
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[quote=] it gave a woman a bit of power, which is my biggest complaint with Tolkien.[/quote]
But Tolkien,yes there is absence of women in his works but he potrays them(with mayor or minor parts)with respect(really dont know how to say it)and they something useful(eowyn and the nazgul,Galadriel and her ring and mirror)they do.Not like in stories where -girl power- doesnt exist,women only appear for comic relief,and appear as weak,stupid,clueless,WAY too feminine,and scared of everything,so which makes men look stronger in many ways.(In the group of first people who went to the moon they were only men,right? )annoyed2:
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