I agree with Ainu Laire and Evenstar Bearer. Arwen was better choice. And I don't think it would be so good if they decided to put Glorfindel in the movie. He had a part in the book and in my opinion that is enough.

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Glorfindel is a fine character, but he would have no part in the later films. I'm sure PJ and the writing team felt it was a way to combine roles, give another female actor a job (in a series of books generally lacking in females) and develop the romantic aspect of Arwen and Aragorn.

I have thought since the time of the film that those opposed to Arwen were more opposed/jealous to the idea of Liv Tyler as Arwen, and not necessarily the replacement of one character for another.

I wonder what people would have felt if Uma Thurman had ended up as Arwen (an early rumor)

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I think Glorfindel should have done the part... he may not be important in LotR itself, but he was a very important person before the time and he deserves being in the movie I think.

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I must be the only person who really doesn't care, I've never had a problem with Arwen replacing Glorfindel. PJ had his reasons and that's good enough for me. He kept as close to the book as he could but he had to make a few exceptions to make the movie more interesting to people who weren't orginally fans of the books and some people like love stories and this was one way to include a love story.

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"There's an ocean between.....where I am and where I want to be"

Yes... I mean this change wasn't the one I found worst... it's ok with Arwen and I really like this scene as it is, I think it would somehow be a bit nicer with Glorfindel in it... but on the other hand it shows a different side of Arwen you don't get to know in the book...

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I agree, it's just how they made it and I think it's very good. If I did want to anaylse it I would say what I said before. (I can't be bothered to write it again.)

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"Without music, life would be a mistake." - Friedrich Nietzsche



"Make happy those who are near, and those who are far will come."

Fwee!

A couple of further points about Arwen replacing Glorfindel in the films.

First of all, Tolkien was anything but a romance writer. He was a linguist. If the filmmakers had not extrapolated what Arwen was doing, there would be even less understanding of what Aragorn was fighting for, and why the heck he doesn't just marry the cute blonde chick from Rohan. You think purists don't like Arwen replacing Glorfindel? Just imagine that scenario

Second, and forgive me if I sound harsh: I have found that most people's issue with Arwen being in the film is that they didn't like Liv Tyler: Mostly young women don't like her. It's petty, and entirely based on a visual jealousy or interpretation that has nothing to do with the story.

Working in theater, there are few enough women's roles in theater to cast. That means less work for women. Not good.

In movies there are few roles that do justice to women. Mostly they end up portrayed as victims, objects, and exploited by our chauvinist leanings in the United States. I'm male, and I think this is a bad thing.

Arwen is an ideal character. She was given many fine traits: Intelligence, beauty, skill, willpower, love and understanding. She also understood the "big picture" about Middle-earth. She didn't have to fight, she used her head. She's 3000 years old, and tht means she has youth and wisdom at the same time.

Not supporting an actress and giving the role to a man just because the books said the character was a guy is short-sighted. It supports out-dated notions that a woman can't do things a man can. The elves had it more right than we do. [/u]

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^you DO have a point, but to remove Glorfindel completely from the movie just to incorperate more of the love between Arwen and Aragorn? i mean come on ... the story was not at all intended to be as much of a love story as PJ made it, right? there were plenty of other opportunities to film Arwen and Aragorn together (which they DID prove), so i dont think it was really necessary to replace Glorfindel with Arwen

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I agree with ya Haldir, but I'm certainly not jealous of Liv Tyler, I actually like her a lot. I think it's good to put more scenes with women into the movie and I don't really care that much who did that part, but I think they also cut out some scenes with women in them e.g. much of the Eowyn/Faramir stuff.

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I will only go on to say that I don't think the character of Glorfindel was removed completely. Certainly some aspects of his heroism and aid to the Fellowship were given to another lesser character from the books, Haldir, who you seem to favor , as well as Legolas, who was also a favorite with many.

The difficulty of including Glorfindel that early in the story (from a film point of view) is another thread of discussion. His inclusion raises even more questions that would have had to be explained, at least in a cursory way.

Questions such as:

OK, now he's in the film. He's obviously a great elf, why doesn't he go with the Fellowship? Or in place of Legolas? Remember, we understand the reasons, but the general public doesn't.

Yes, you could argue "he needs to stay in Rivendell and resist the power of Sauron" which is an extrapolation of my own related to his introduction in the book" But again, it's needless exposition. Peter Jackson wasn't even going to really explain the differences between the elves (Noldor versus Sylvan, etc.) in the short space of the movie. He didn't really have time to include Glorfindel's history and relationship to Aragorn, etc.

While I do mourn the loss of certain characters from the movie, I'm sure that Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens went through the same exercises as we are here. Their conclusion was to add interest in the characters by adding more to the story of Arwen and Aragorn by expanding the role of the female elf. Yin to his Yang. It's not the only reason, but it certainly enlarges Aragorn's character to have something more at stake.

Good discussion! Naturally I respect your opinion.

-Chaleins

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I totally agree with peace. They could chose anybody, but they choose Evenstar/ youngest child/ princess?? I prefer Glorfindel...

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But why's the rum gone?

I think...maybe both!! I cant decide..mainly Glorifndel to stick to the book

I loved it being Arwen! I thought that part between Aragorn and Arwen in that scene was cute. And I also LOVED that outfit she wore when she tried to save Frodo...*sigh*

Although I did like Glorfindel...

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Eeek I still think it should have been Glorfindel because they already changed the book that much ... and Glorfindel is such an important character ... they took him out entirely!

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i think i definetly would of liked to see what they would make glorfindel look like

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I bid you STAND!!! Men of the the west