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PostPosted: January 17th, 2011, 4:51 pm 
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I believe the management issue is one of the main things in this project. We must step carefully. It is so important that it happens in a way that can gain wide support throughout the member base, or we might create a division among us that we don't want to happen and that may hurt the process now and later on.

I think that we might look at it in two stages. The first stage being throwing in a lot of work right now, cleaning out, fixing links, adding new content etc. etc. There is a lot of work to be done, and we need a lot of people, and a lot of time, and a lot of decisions need to be made here.

The second stage is when we've got things up and running and, like someone mentioned, we might not need the groups in the same way anymore and some people might step down.
Then the question about general management and enforcing of rules and dealing with issues, conflicts etc. comes into play. And I don't know what I think about it. I know that I didn't like a some of Arwen's decisions or how she and the mod team dealt with some things but I did respect them.. after all, it was her forum and I was free to leave if I didn't like it. But it's not the same now. If I'm putting a lot of time and work into the site I would hope to somewhat have a say in how things are going - even though my wishes could not be met every time! I wouldn't like the idea of one single person being elected the 'president'.. not even if that person was doing a good job... It's just the idea that any one person would have the final say here doesn't feel right, but I'm not sure I understood the ideas correctly..? Perhaps some kind of 'collective rule' would work... but I don't know... :)


By the way, I do like the idea of having open groups running all the time though, so say you're interested in updating the content, you should be able to join in and contribute for a couple of months and then you might be busy with RL and have to withdraw but at that time someone else would probably already have stepped up. So the groups could work like a flexible team where people can pop in and contribute what they want.... although, there would definitely need to be some guidelines and structure to it...

EDIT: Perhaps this discussion actually belongs in the staffing thread...?! :teehee:

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PostPosted: January 17th, 2011, 5:26 pm 
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Eä wrote:
The second stage is when we've got things up and running and, like someone mentioned, we might not need the groups in the same way anymore and some people might step down.
Then the question about general management and enforcing of rules and dealing with issues, conflicts etc. comes into play. And I don't know what I think about it. I know that I didn't like a some of Arwen's decisions or how she and the mod team dealt with some things but I did respect them.. after all, it was her forum and I was free to leave if I didn't like it. But it's not the same now. If I'm putting a lot of time and work into the site I would hope to somewhat have a say in how things are going - even though my wishes could not be met every time! I wouldn't like the idea of one single person being elected the 'president'.. not even if that person was doing a good job... It's just the idea that any one person would have the final say here doesn't feel right, but I'm not sure I understood the ideas correctly..? Perhaps some kind of 'collective rule' would work... but I don't know... :)


That is exactly what I was feeling as well. It's for sure that one person is needed to be in charge, (call it being the president or chief if you would like), but the thing with electing a member as chief is, that it's never going to work out. A chief may make mistakes or disappoint members, and since this chief will not have set up the entire site and forum, he or she might get less respect than Arwen and the mods did at the time.
I'm not sure how to explain this, but I think that a member being elevated to a kind of president status, will not turn out for the best. I think people put up more discussion etc. when a debatable decision/rule has been executed by an elected chief, because the chief was just elected anyway, whereas a debatable decision executed by Arweb or the mods might be accepted more easily because they just were in charge.

Okay, I think everyone probably lost me, because I'm rambling, so I'll just stop right now.. :whistle:

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PostPosted: January 17th, 2011, 8:27 pm 
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While I can see your points, Will and Ea, the problem is that decisions will need to be made. And in order for those to happen, someone needs to step up and set things up. For instance, we wouldn't be having any of these decisions if Ammy hadn't brought up her thread. Where the "President" is helpful is where s/he can bring the things to the attention of the rest of the group, and actually have decisions made. If groups are left to their own, they're less likely to resolve situations unless one person takes on a more commanding role.

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PostPosted: January 17th, 2011, 8:31 pm 
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Nurr makes a good point. Everything will just amount to talking if there isn't someone to step up and make the decision in the end.

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PostPosted: January 17th, 2011, 8:50 pm 
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I feel the same way as Will. On one hand, I think there's a need for a single person in charge to take over the primary responsibilities of running the site. On the other hand, I can't image it working out. Whoever's in charge will certainly be challenged about their decisions or complained about because of something. That's just the way things are in a democracy. ;)

Also, is there anyone who can be president? It's sound to me like there's many of us willing to help out in small ways, but everyone also has other RL responsibilities and couldn't possibly dedicate all or most of time to A-U, which I'd imagine would be required of a president. I, for one, would certainly expect them to stay always on top of things, at least.

By the way, I feel I should sort of officially state my availability and level of involvement here. :P I would really, really love to be involved somehow, because I've been a member of A-U for... gosh, six and a half years or something and, like many of you, I've considered it to be like a second home. Unfortunately, I'm hitting a very important time in my life, and I don't have much time to spare. That, plus my generally un-prolific nature, makes it likely I'll be even more un-prolific than usual. :P I probably won't be able to do anything until about mid-March, and even after that I'll be very busy until the summer.
But, like I said, A-U is really important to me, so if there's any little thing I can do, I certainly want to help out. :)

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PostPosted: January 17th, 2011, 11:10 pm 
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^ I really think the best thing people like you can do Taur, is just try and add your opinions and thoughts whenever you can. :-) At the moment, and in the future the comments and thoughts of you and people who will be the ones benefiting from changes etc, is going to be vital.

Hmmm... it is going to be tricky sorting out what kind of role the top banana will take.

The way I see it, ultimately, is that each group for each section of the forum, will deal with their own things. Obviously each group will also have to be kept aware of each other, and in some cases will need to be (the layout makers and the coders for example). The top banana should hopefully, just make sure things run smoothly, and if any questions are asked, should be able to offer advice and a solution. If the question was a biggie, the other group members could be involved (or just the Mods if and when they are appointed) and although technically if the top banana should have the ultimate say... would it not be fairer if the majority had the say instead?

At the moment I am not spending too long on this train of thought, but as the rules of AU will no doubt stand, I can't see the top banana having to deal with as much as Arwen, or having to have real control. I see it more as a caretaker, making sure every group works together smoothly, and as I said, offering opinions and advice when needed. Not to say that each group can do what they want, because any task they would do, would have been explained to the top banana.

And also if anything was decided that the AU'ers didn't like... it would not be the fault of any one person.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2011, 12:45 am 
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O Hai!

Just thought i'd pop-in and say "hallo". I've been lurking on all of these threads and I just want to say that the ideas have been fantastic! I'm so proud of you guys. It's great to have so many people willing to take leadership roles, as someone who has led clubs and organized events (in my non-AU life), I understand the difficulties faced and how daunting it really is!

Anyway, I'm here for you guys if you have any questions. Later on, when I'm not writing this from the mobile web on my phone (plzzzz, excuse mah spellin'), I'll contribute more to the discussion, but in the meantime, I'm here and ready to help.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2011, 12:25 pm 
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Arwen, come back!!! Dictatorship is so much easier!!! :P

Great input, guys. I was really interested to see how you imagined this to happen. :-)

Perhaps we should just go along and deal with the issue *if* it comes up.

But I'm still curious to the handover thing.. I mean it would be great if we could start working on updating the main site, fixing links and adding new content... but I guess there has to be some kind of group in charge of it. And I'm happy to leave it in the hands of those who have already offered their help.

But I suppose we'll have to work out finances first...


And hola Sida, good to see you! Do you have any idea if any of the other mods are interested in being part of the New A-U?

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2011, 12:47 pm 
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Johnny's Fan wrote:
The top banana should hopefully, just make sure things run smoothly, and if any questions are asked, should be able to offer advice and a solution. If the question was a biggie, the other group members could be involved (or just the Mods if and when they are appointed) and although technically if the top banana should have the ultimate say... would it not be fairer if the majority had the say instead?

At the moment I am not spending too long on this train of thought, but as the rules of AU will no doubt stand, I can't see the top banana having to deal with as much as Arwen, or having to have real control. I see it more as a caretaker, making sure every group works together smoothly, and as I said, offering opinions and advice when needed. Not to say that each group can do what they want, because any task they would do, would have been explained to the top banana.

And also if anything was decided that the AU'ers didn't like... it would not be the fault of any one person.


JF, you hit the nail on the head with that one! :D

That is pretty much what I was getting at when I brought up the whole "President" thing... perhaps a better term would be a manager? Someone who watches over the group and approves layouts, graphics, etc. without being <i>too</i> powerful. Just someone who will be able to provide the last bit of approval before something goes up on the site or whatever. :yes: And then if there's any problems or whatever, you just go to the manager of the group and they can offer advice/solutions like JF mentioned. :yes:

I do see the downsides to it though, as Taur mentioned, with being busy and all that. But I don't think it's a position where you need to be glued to the computer. :no: I think in order to be a manger, you should be frequent on AU and a good leader. But other than that, I don't think it would be too difficult for anyone to watch over a group of people and help out where it's needed.

And then other people could still play a role in the groups, but a lot wouldn't be expected of them if they didn't have enough time. They could still contribute and everything, but it wouldn't be <i>as</i> demanding as the manager position would be.

I certainly hope I'm making sense. :teehee:

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2011, 3:22 pm 
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Eä wrote:
But I'm still curious to the handover thing.. I mean it would be great if we could start working on updating the main site, fixing links and adding new content... but I guess there has to be some kind of group in charge of it. And I'm happy to leave it in the hands of those who have already offered their help.


Well, we seem to have the formings of groups already. There are the people working on the forum, the administration/funding, the new look, and the main site. And with each separate thread, we tend to have different people gravitating to them.

So:
News/New Content (whether it started as this or not, it is pretty much working on the main site)
Moderators/Administration
Funding
Layout/Coding
Forum

So it would make sense to have one, maybe two, people from each group take charge of that section, and those people would form the group that kind of runs the whole thing.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2011, 5:39 pm 
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Taurquende wrote:
By the way, I feel I should sort of officially state my availability and level of involvement here. :P I would really, really love to be involved somehow, because I've been a member of A-U for... gosh, six and a half years or something and, like many of you, I've considered it to be like a second home. Unfortunately, I'm hitting a very important time in my life, and I don't have much time to spare. That, plus my generally un-prolific nature, makes it likely I'll be even more un-prolific than usual. :P I probably won't be able to do anything until about mid-March, and even after that I'll be very busy until the summer.
But, like I said, A-U is really important to me, so if there's any little thing I can do, I certainly want to help out. :)


Your post made me think! I think it's absolutely great that you post this. I have a feeling that many people might feel the same way you do and even feel .. I don't know... "guilty"? for not being able to contribute.. or for not being able to put time or money into this project. Or feeling that things are going too fast... especially if they are only able to get on here maybe a couple of times a week. I mean everyone has real lives and busy lives.. I know that I post a lot here and that some of the discussions might spin off very quickly from day to day so it can be difficult to catch up. The reason why I'm on here a lot more than I would normally is that I'm writing a thesis which for me equals having no social life, so I'm at home (and supposed to be writing!) almost all day except when I'm at work.. but I realise that other people are not glued to their computer and A-U! :P

Actually, I think it would be great if we had more members voicing their opinions here.. even if you just came in and said 'looking good, carry on' or 'I'm really concerned that...' We're working for a forum that should suit as many people as we can, and creating a place that still ought to feel like a second home even with the changes we're about to make. This is why it is so important to have more members coming in and drop a line about how they feel about some of the things. At the moment it feels like we are a handful of people posting out of the total amount of relatively active members. Personally, I'd feel horrible if we managed to do everything we talked about and ended up with a brand new updated forum only to realise that we'd lost members in the process who for some reason or the other felt left out...
I don't know if there is a reason to worry about this... I just wanted to throw it out there! :)

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2011, 5:44 pm 
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^ That's the way I feel as well. It's been fantastic to hear thoughts and comments from new people as it were to these discussions.

I do wonder if actually people don't know what is going on here in this section. Maybe a post in Your Life pointing them to here might be good. :-)

And maybe even using that Your Life thread to let some people voice their opinions there as well - these threads are starting to get a bit complicated and for a member just wanting to give a little shout, they might feel less overwhelmed if they can say their piece there.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2011, 5:57 pm 
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^Yeah, I think that would be good. I wouldn't want to be posting in here if I didn't feel like I was contributing, but I would post a line or two on another thread.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2011, 6:11 pm 
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Yeah, I'd been thinking something like that... I posted a thread in Your Life... please add comment if I didn't cover everything that needed to be said... :)

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2011, 7:07 pm 
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^ What about the RPG boards? I'm not an RP-er myself, but I get the feeling they're usually very isolated, and might not know what's going on.

I'm glad my little announcement sparked some discussion, because I felt a little pompous making it. :teehee: But in the earlier pages people had made little offers of volunteerism based on where they stand so I felt I should, too. I shall definitely be contributing to the discussions; I have too many ideas and opinions swirling around in my head to not blurt them out. :P

Aramel Elyanwe wrote:
That is pretty much what I was getting at when I brought up the whole "President" thing... perhaps a better term would be a manager? Someone who watches over the group and approves layouts, graphics, etc. without being <i>too</i> powerful. Just someone who will be able to provide the last bit of approval before something goes up on the site or whatever. :yes: And then if there's any problems or whatever, you just go to the manager of the group and they can offer advice/solutions like JF mentioned. :yes:


I think this is very well said. It makes it sound more like an "Editor" rather than "President," which has a less scary job description. ;)

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2011, 7:10 pm 
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Yes, but Presidents get to have Oval offices and rugs and mugs with seals on them and suitcases with big red buttons tha can explode countries and.....

*realises her American/White House fangirlism is currently on overload*

*ahem*

I guess to make sure everyone gets to have their say and see what is going on... we should start putting stuff in sigs again.... relating to this new campaign as well.

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