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Post subject: Sam's Gone? WRONG!  Posted: January 10th, 2009, 7:27 pm |
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Joined: 21 September 2008
Posts: 156
Location: Wandering, lost in my secret realm of fiction & fantasy (who stole my map??)
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Sam's gone? I don't think so! Why on EARTH did they have Frodo send Sam away on the Straight Stair? It doesn't add anything to the plot whatsoever, degrades Frodo (don't hurt me; i am a big fan of F), and hurts Sam a lot!!!!!!! And it doesn't even 'add' a reason for Sam not being with Frodo when Shelob attacks; the book had it all mapped out. I know i am ranting but it is probably the biggest mistake aside from Faramir *cough cough* and i get really mad about it. Please tell me what you voted and why! I want to delete this scene.
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Post subject: Posted: January 20th, 2009, 12:58 pm |
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Joined: 19 September 2005
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Location: Middle-earth
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Basically, I agree with you. I mean, I can see the dramaturgical reasons why PJ did this. It's just more exciting if Frodo has to go into Shelob's Lair alone. But I still think it degrades Frodo, just as you do.
So, I voted "No as it deviates from the book".
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yet we've only just begun.
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Post subject: Posted: February 16th, 2009, 8:50 pm |
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Joined: 10 July 2005
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*rubs hands together*
As someone who has never read the books... Ok I read the first two before I was officially obsessed. I LOVE that scene, and just because it wasn't in the book, it doesn't bother me that it was there.
Now before I explian why I thought it was good to be there, I have found myself, as a lover of a book that has been turned into a film, also questioning additions to the film that were not in the book. However, if I see there is a good, solid reason for any changes, I am usually more than willing to set my "it wasn't in the book so it's wrong" feelings aside. Sometimes I can't, if the changes were just done for reasons like making a film bigger and more action packed for example.
We know by this time, that although Hobbits are more resiliant to the powers of the Ring, that even Frodo is suffering under its weight. We also know that Gollum has managed to gain Frodo's sympathy and Sam's hatred and he will do anything to get the Ring back. These two things; the power of the Ring and Gollum's villiany, combined are enough to cause the not-himself Frodo to do something he would never, ever do.
To me, the absolute utlimate thing that could happen to once and for all show how evil the Ring is, and how it can corrupt, is for it and Gollum to cause Frodo to send back Sam. Sam, who has been his friend all the way through their journey, who has dealt with bad things and Frodo's moods and pains and has put up with Gollum, is finally sent away.
I think that is one of the most tragic parts of the story, and if anyone had forgotten by this point, what the Ring can do, they are sooo reminded. Like the Faramir scene (which I also approve by the way), to me it makes so much sense it has been included.
I don't believe this scene was added to make the fight with Shelob more dramatic. I think we have to give PJ a little bit more credit for his storytelling than that.
I have heard it said by people who knew Tolkien, that there are changes, that he himself might have wished he had thought of them and written them down.
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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*
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Post subject: Posted: March 3rd, 2009, 3:36 pm |
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Eä |
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Oh, very nicely put, my dear Gimli. I can't add much to JF's post as this was also the thing I would stress when I read the question. What Frodo did is unusual to his nature and character and proves to me that the power of the Ring has grown so strong to cause strife even among the truest of friends. It shows me in a very clear way what the Ring can do. It sows hatred on all levels, between nations, between people, between dear friends.
Very powerful scene.
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Post subject: Posted: March 5th, 2009, 1:39 pm |
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Post subject: Posted: July 29th, 2009, 2:24 pm |
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Joined: 09 September 2008
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Location: In the dim recesses of my head...
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Ugh! I have to agree with what you two said about it showing what the Ring can do and all that, but still, didn't it BOTHER you? It's just....sad. And it's not how things happened in the book (yes, I know that's not everything, but...I liked the way the book did it better.) I didn't think it felt right, nor did it feel like Frodo. It felt annoying. I'll stop before I get awful.
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Post subject: Posted: August 6th, 2009, 5:06 pm |
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Post subject: Posted: November 25th, 2009, 11:35 pm |
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^I agree with you Calloniel and I agree with JF.
I can see why PJ did it and it is a pretty sad scene but it does bother me that it exists. It just doesn't really fit Frodo's character. That's why I had to vote "No."
_________________ Still happily married to Sean Bean! (05-Feb-2010)
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Post subject: Re: Sam's Gone? WRONG! Posted: April 3rd, 2011, 5:53 pm |
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I didn't like it at all... It made me sad because Frodo never would have said that to Sam.
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Post subject: Re: Sam's Gone? WRONG! Posted: May 4th, 2011, 1:58 am |
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Joined: 03 May 2011
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Location: Don't look too carefully...
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Whether or not it was in the book...
Whether or not Tolkien would have thought of it...
No. I rarely cry. Almost never. Especially at movies.
But that scene almost forced me to.
So no.
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Post subject: Re: Sam's Gone? WRONG! Posted: May 14th, 2011, 1:55 pm |
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^ah! that scene did make me cry! Theatrically it was beautifully done, even if it wasn't in the book. so yes, I like it in the movie. plus, it made Frodo get attacked by Shelob by himself, so Sam had to rescue him (another favorite scene).
I know some people said it messes with Frodo's character, but I just see it as how vulnerable he was due to the Ring, and Gollum just took advantage of that.
_________________   thanks for the Hobbit Team banner, Lembas!
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Post subject: Re: Sam's Gone? WRONG! Posted: July 26th, 2011, 7:38 am |
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That was bad bad BAD scene  Very untrue towards the book and I felt like Frodo is a traitor destroying the friendship. But in the sense of dramatic action, it was good turn for the worse ^^ _________________ 
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Post subject: Re: Sam's Gone? WRONG! Posted: August 12th, 2011, 10:13 am |
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^i agree it was good but bad at the same time if that makes sense good in the sense it shows how much power the ring has over frodo but bad cuz frodo's destroying the friendship
_________________ frodo:you've left out one of the main characters, samwise the brave, i want to hear more about sam, Frodo wouldn't have got far without sam. 
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Post subject: Re: Posted: August 20th, 2011, 5:53 pm |
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Eä |
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Eä wrote: Oh, very nicely put, my dear Gimli. I can't add much to JF's post as this was also the thing I would stress when I read the question. What Frodo did is unusual to his nature and character and proves to me that the power of the Ring has grown so strong to cause strife even among the truest of friends. It shows me in a very clear way what the Ring can do. It sows hatred on all levels, between nations, between people, between dear friends.
Very powerful scene. I remember posting this. I do not remember that it's been two years though. And I changed my mind. Slightly.  I don't like the scene because it's so far from the book. In the book Frodo always realises the Ring's power over him and apologises to Sam. Frodo is still in control of himself and able to master the Ring's calling. The scene in the movie is heart-wrenching and tragic and.. umm.. wrong. On the other hand, it does work well on a dramaturgical level.. and it shows what might have happened to Frodo if he had had the Ring for a little longer... so I suppose it works in the movie.. sigh.. But it's just so.. wrong.. _________________ >>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
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Post subject: Re: Sam's Gone? WRONG! Posted: August 27th, 2011, 6:01 pm |
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I think that it shows, in a way I can fully explain, that it shows a new side to Sam's loyalty. They're in the almost littleraly the pits of hell and he still leaves when Frodo tells him to. I think it shows a different kind of loyalty, maybe I'm wrong
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Post subject: Re: Sam's Gone? WRONG! Posted: May 6th, 2012, 9:04 am |
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WHile the book did map out why the two weren't together, keep in mind that would be a TON of extra filming and extra measures, and it is hard to describe things visually without words. They also wanted to show the cunning of Gollum and the more evil side, and also emphasize that the Smeagol side was losing the "Gollum vs Smeagol" war.
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I can understand why PJ wanted it like that... and I don't concider myself a It-was-like-this-in-the-book-it-HAS-to-be-like-it-in-the-movie-otherwise-it's-stupid sort of person. HOWEVER, this particular scene has always bothered me. From the time I first saw it in theaters up until this day. There's just something about it that really doesn't feel right. 
mostly because, I think, even if Frodo had done that I'm not sure Sam would've left him... even as much as he did. I dunno.
