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 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: February 7th, 2012, 2:55 pm 
Welcomator
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Okie-dokie. :-)

I'm posting here for the last time because we're going around in circles. I can't make my point any more plainly or nicer than what I'm about to say. If my comments cause someone else to fire off both cannons, please remember that's not my fault. As I can assure you this post does not have *heated debate* slapped over it.

The Facts:

1) We want the Elvish section made better either by adding new material or removing old material

2) dreamingfifi has offered to help us re-vamp the Elvish section by making it far more up to date and scholarly for the serious Tolkien linguists out there

3) This is going to be a good thing for AU as we'll be reaching out to more people and it's good to update things even if originally we never thought much about updating the Elvish itself, just sorting out the pages

4) Certain people (of which I can name more than 4 so let's not pick on one person here) would like to keep a certain page(s) just as they are in addition to the new pages that dreamingfifi has created for us.

5) Certain people (of which if we were voting they would be out voted) do not want this to happen for various reasons which can be found on previous pages. I gather, the main reason is the content which some want kept is totally wrong and is going to make people use Elvish that is wrong without them knowing.

6) A suggestion was offered to make it damn clear that the old content is really just fluff and for fun and if you hate seeing bad Elvish go the X amount of new shiny pages for your enjoyment instead. But this fair compromise (an unfair compromise would be to take dreamingfifi works and distort that to meet our fun needs) doesn't seem to have had the effect that it sensibly should

But ultimately..... if more people want the old content as well as the new to be on AU, than the people who only want the new content..... why are we still discussing this? Where else in our past conversations be it who is the murderer at the Hallowfest, or what colour layout should be use, have we not made a decision based on a majority ruling or a poll?

I'm not prepared to discuss this any further, because it's tiring and I'm worn out even thinking about it all and sadly, it looks like only some of us are being able to say what they really feel.

So whatever you guys decide, I'll go along with. Regarding the IPA thing, I've got no clue about it, so only the people who understand what is easier for people to learn, should be a part of making a decision about what format we use for the Elvish, which is why I haven't been involved in any of those discussions.

When you do decide what you want doing, Crutchie can get back to doing her job. :bye2:

I've nothing to say.... you have many things.... well nothing that's not be said....

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 Post subject: Re: Suggestion - The Elvish Section
PostPosted: February 8th, 2012, 4:40 am 
Rider of Rohan
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Alright, I lost my cool, sorry. I did take this monstrous task on right as a new semester started (bad timing) and pretty much destroyed myself physically and mentally to get it done before classes got serious, which I'm not sure I communicated.

There's another layer to this... I'm not really part of the community yet. I want to be, and was making a few steps towards it, but my comfort zone is wrangling languages and am slowly working my way to other sections... I'm weirdly shy like that. I'm far more comfortable chatting about languages than most of the rest of canon because that's what my passion has always been. That being said, most of you guys view me as an outsider. And when I criticized things that you hold dear, you guys took it as an outside attack on you.

It doesn't help that I never liked Arwen much to begin with. I joined up because I heard that she was gone.

But the truth of the matter is - I don't want this place to have bad translations on it. I'd like to see more good Elvish on the web.

I'm going to try to explain why this is important to me without getting emotional and angry.

This is something that I learned the hard way, over and over and over - so it's a little sore for me. It has to do with the way misinformation is spread. Now, the intentions behind the misinformation may have been completely benign, and might be clearly marked as harmless fun, but most people won't read the warning label. So, it spreads. No one knows the origins of the phrases, they just know that they saw it in someone's RP post or in someone's fanfic, thought it was genuine, and copy it to their own.

Compound it with people copying and pasting it onto their own websites WITHOUT the warning label, and there's a full-scale epidemic on our hands.

Then they come to me. They think they know a little Elvish, and want to study Elvish with my class. And they find out they haven't been using Tolkien's languages all along. Or, they received a message in A-U Sindarish, and thinking it's actual Elvish, ask me to decode it. Or it's some poor guy who finds out the "Elven name" he's been showing off actually means "Enslaved Female Eru" (Erumollien) in Quenya. (Or "Eru of female torment" in Sindarin. Either way - not a good name.)

I've been cleaning up the linguistic pollution of A-U for years. At least with Grelvish, people could figure out from the website that it's for a fantasy RPG that's unrelated to LotR. Here, to the untrained eye, it looks legit.

So, I got really excited when it looked like you were giving me a chance to remove this problem from the internet. And angry when it looked like you wanted to keep the problem up just to