Okay, I was reading FotR for the first time... and I got to the council of Elrond and their talking about the fall of Gil-Galad. Well, Elrond says "I remember well the splendour of their banners" and a big long paragraph, and then:

"'You remember?' said Frodo, speaking his thought aloud in his astonishment. 'But I thought,' he stammered as Elrond turned towards him, 'I thought that the fall of Gil-galad was a long age ago.'" (word for word from my book, and so is the next part)

"'So it was indeed,' answered Elrond greavely. 'But my memory reaches back even to the Eldar Days. Earendil was my sire, who was born in Gondolin before it's fall; and my mother was Elwing, daughter of Dior, son of Luthien of Doriath'"

Well, I have alway been told by my dad(who has read the books and is an LotR fan), and friends, and a few people here on A-U that Elrond is the son of Galadriel and Celeborn. But this gives me doudtes. Unless Celeborn is Earendil, and Elwing is Galadriel... but if so, why different names? I've pondered this alot... and I can't figure this out... can someone help me? Who are Elrond's sire and dam(father and mother)?

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(}--{)Imagination Inspires Ideas -Zandain(}--{)
Married Cloud Strife 9/17/08

um ok Earendil and Elwing were indeed Elrond's father and mother.Galadriel and Celeborn had a daughter Celebrian i think and she married Elrond.feel free to correct me if im wrong but i hope that cleared everything up 4 u.

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^thanks to arwenevenstar.com.

"...You can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest.Honestly,it's the honest ones you want to look out for..."

^ you're correct goldelf.

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Oh! okay! gotcha! Thanks alot, that deffinantly cleared it all up for me!

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(}--{)Imagination Inspires Ideas -Zandain(}--{)
Married Cloud Strife 9/17/08

True, and Arwen, being the daughter of Elrond and Celebrian is the grand daughter of Galadriel and Celeborn. Perhaps that confused you?

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Yeah, that confused me! Thanks for clearing that up for me!

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(}--{)Imagination Inspires Ideas -Zandain(}--{)
Married Cloud Strife 9/17/08

And Elrond was the banner bearer/ Herald of Gil Galad and his second in command. He was the son of Earendil and Elwing, but he was Galadriel and Celebrons son in law. Celebrian took a wound from a run in with the orcs and it wouldnt heal, so she went to the undying lands.That may have confused you. But I reckon Aerandir will find something wrong with this statement so watch this space.

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "

Hun, Elwing and Earendil are Elrond's parents, not Galadriel and Celeborn.

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Faith isn't the ability to believe long and far into the misty future.
It's simply taking God at His Word and taking the next step Joni Erickson Tada

I know, Lady Raine, I've already learnt that by the above posts! lol..

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(}--{)Imagination Inspires Ideas -Zandain(}--{)
Married Cloud Strife 9/17/08

Sorry about that

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Faith isn't the ability to believe long and far into the misty future.
It's simply taking God at His Word and taking the next step Joni Erickson Tada

Lol, that actually looks correct, don't worry. Though, I'm not sure if Círdan was the same 'rank' as Elrond or not--they were both pretty close in terms of positions in Gil-galad's army, but I don't recall Tolkien saying who was higher.

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I do believe Elrond was higher... But that might just be me imagining it since he was Gil-Galad's banner bearer and then I suppose pretty much second-in-command. But then again, I don't remember Tolkien saying anything at all about Cirdan's position.. Did he?

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by Lembas

That's actually the only reference to Círdan in that 'tale', but I tend to think that Círdan would have been at least as highly-ranked as Elrond, since Círdan has who-knows-how-many years on Elrond. Círdan had been alive at least since the Teleri settled by the sea while waiting for Elwë to return--he ruled the Elves at the havens of Brithombar and Eglarest, all the way through the Ages--the Elder Days and the days before them, even. Perhaps he was one of those who had been born at Cuiviénen, though perhaps not. Either way, he has a few thousand years on Elrond, I'd say, which should entitle him to at least the same rank.

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Well, I'm thinking years might not be of matter. If Elrond is better at war than Círdan, I'd say that would give him a higher rank.
But from what Elrond wrote, it seems that Círdan might actually be equal to Elrond. I guess we will never know

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by Lembas

didnt Cirdan have 1 of the 3 three rings,til he gave it to Gandalf? he must have been pretty important cos the rings were given to the highest elven rulers werent they? hence Galadriel and Gil-galad having the other ones.

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^thanks to arwenevenstar.com.

"...You can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest.Honestly,it's the honest ones you want to look out for..."

Yes,Cirdan had Narya,the Ring of Fire,and when Gandalf arrived in Middle-earth,he gave it to him.
I agree with what Aerandir said.I'm on the same opinion:Cirdan is at least with the same rank as Elrond.
Thanks for the interesting information,Aerandir!:)

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