I finally got the Silmarillion! And after I got through reading annoying books for school, I finally started it! I'm only on Chapter 14:Of Beleriand and Its Realms now, but I still want to discuss what I've read so far without spoilers that ruin the rest of the book for me. So is anyone else reading it now or has anyone read it already that wouldn't mind discussing it with me as I go? I'm a pretty fast reader (when I'm not really busy), so you won't have to wait forever to discuss. I'd really appreciate it!
So........... anyone want to talk about what I've read so far?
~T.T

What did you The tale about the valar(i forgot its name).

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^What do you mean? Did I like it? If that's what your asking then yes, of course I liked it. I really loved reading about the Valar. All of the different ones and their traits. That might have been my favorite part of the book so far. Which of the Valar is your favorite?

I read the Sil a while ago so it's not all present to me. But I'd like to discuss Ainulindalë and Valaquenta. They both deal with a similar topic; the coming of the Ainur and creation of Arda.
Do you have a favorite and if Tolkien had settled with only one of the tales, which one should it be - and why?

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Too hard! True, they do both deal with pretty much the same the same topic, but some things that are in Ainulindale are not in Valaquenta, and vice versa. So I think they are both important.
Ainulindale is good because it explains how everything first came into being. I really love the way Tolkien describes the Ainur's song. The whole thing reminds me a little bit of C.S Lewis's account of how Narnia was created. But the two were close friends, so I guess it's kind of natural that there would be similarities in their writing.
I think I liked Valaquenta a little better than Ainulindale. I loved reading the different descriptions of all of the Valar. They are each unique, and so brilliantly and minutely created. Valaquenta also reminds me of Greek/Roman mythology, which interests me in some measure.
What is your own opinion?
By the way, thanks for posting. I was nearly ready to give this thread up in despair because no one was. Then you did. So thank you.
~T.T

I too haven't read the Sil in a while, but I too enjoyed Ainulindalë and Valaquenta. It fascinated me to read about all the people and ther powers, and how Arda was made. Later on in the book I enjoyed connecting many of the people and events that happened with things in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. It really was interesting to see how all of the books were tied with the Sil.

I agree with Larael. It is pretty cool to see how the Sil ties in with LOTR. I've read parts about Galadriel already, and I'm think "Hey! I know her!". One thing that kind of bothers me about the Sil, they tell you that Beren comes back form the dead before you actually read that part. I think it would have been better not to say anything about it so we could have been surprised later. But I love the book so afar overall.

Hmm.. Ainulindalë or Valaquenta
Valaquenta or Ainulindalë .. they're both gorgeous! Though.. I always seem to go back to the Valaquenta for some reason...

Acutally, my mother has just started reading the Sil, O.O I'm so afraid she won't like it... she didn't even finish LotR! Gah! How could I have given it to her!



I haven't read any of CS Lewis' works myself, but it wouldn't suprise me if there were similiarities in their writings
.. I really should get round to reading the Chronicles .. one day

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Yes. The Chronicles are very good books, even if they are recomended more for children. You should definitely get them.
Oh wow though. I finished the tale of Beren and Luthien last night, and it was amazing. Probably one of the most beautiful love stories ever. It puts me even more in awe of Tolkien. He could write about anything. He could write about bloody wars and epic battles, but he could also write beautiful love stories.

I agree; Ainulindalë and Valaquenta are two different tales, the nature of them and purpose of them are different. Ainulindalë focuses on how the Ainur came into being and Valaquenta deals more with creation and describing each Vala. I just wanted to hear your opinions on it. One couldn't exist without the other... although Valaquenta seems a bit more complete. And it is very similar to other mythologies. I really like how it tells why and how Melkor turned astray...

Concerning the Tale of Beren and Lúthien. It's one of my absolute favorite parts of Tolkien's work. They had to endure an awful lot of things before they could finally live 'happily ever after'. I love the way Lúthien's actions are so strong and powerful, but she remains very.. what can I say.. feminine in everything. Usually when a woman appears strong, she does so, because she acts like a man, but Lúthien defeats the Dark Lord only by her song.
I know she actually fought him with his own methods, but song appears a lot more appealing (civilised?) to me than cold steel.. lol

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I like the way you put that Ea. And it's true. Luthien did defeat the Morgoth with a song, which I find very cool. Luhtien was a refreshing charcater for me, because (and I am in NO WAY bashing Tolkien. I love the man! He is my hero!) Tolkien didt feature a lot of woomen in his stories compared to men, and when he did, they usually didn't fight.
I love the fact that Luthien's not afraid. She could just stay home and watch Beren struggle through his task, but instead she refuses to saty behind and goes out there and struggle with him. That's love. And in the end, her giving up her immortality for him, as with Arwen, that was just beautiful. To love someone so much that you would give up your life for them, especially an eternal one. That's powerful.

Thank you.
The essential thing about love is that you will do anything for it. When i think of it Lúthien is portrayed very much like a modern woman. As you say, she doesn't want to stay behind, but she wants to be pro-active, to fight for her beliefs - and do it on the same conditions as Beren.
Many medieval women (and we gotta admit that Tolkien has drawn a lot from Medieval culture and tales) did fight like men with sword in hand (and I can't help comparing with Eowyn), but when they did so, they took up the 'work of men' so to say and in that way perhaps gave up a bit of their feminine side for the male part. Well, it's difficult to explain, but I see Lúthien like a character who wants to fight on her own conditions. Most women doesn't possess the same physical strength as men, but that shouldn't stop them from fighting. The sword is not the only way. Lúthien proves that, and I find it very inspirational. I think it's a point which applies to everyone; use whatever powers you are given.

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Exactly: use what powers you were given. Which she did. She just happened to be given immense power.
It's funny what you said about comparing her to Eowyn, because that's just what I was going to do in my post before this one but didn't. They do have certain similarities, but their reasons for fighting, and their styles of fighting were completely different. Eowyn went to battle to seek death; luthien went to battle to help save the one she loves from death. Eowyn used more physical methods, like a sword; Luthien used more beyond the physical methods, like enchantments. Nonetheless, they are similar in being the two main female characters in Tolkien's world who are not content with letting the men do the work. What makes it better is that they fought bravely, as well, if not better than most men. That's one thing you have to give Tolkien. He may not have had women characters fighting a lot, but when they did, they alwasy did amazing deeds (i.e. Enchanting Morgoth and slaying the Witch King). They are very inspiring characters. They make you see that even if you're not thought to be the bravest and the strongest, sometimes you end up being anyway. That theme shows itself often throughout Tolkien's work, particularly in the way that Frodo, an insignificant hobbit, is his protagonist in LOTR. But since this is a thread about the Sil, pehaps I'd better save that one for another time.
~T.T

Interesting! I, too, was reluctant to mention Eowyn because she and Lúthien are two completely different characters (that's why she only got an honorable mention in a parenthesis, lol). The only thing really that is comparable is that they are both women. So it wouldn't be fair to any of them.
It's very true what you say about their different reasons for fighting. Determinism is a virtue found in most of Tolkien's important characters, and here Frodo must be the best example.

I don't know how much more I can say about this topic, but it has been a pleasure to discuss it with you T.T

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I agree. Thanks very much though Ea. I've had a lot of fun talking about it with you too!

I'm still open for anything anyone else would like to discuss about the Sil.

~T.T