Arwen-Undomiel.com
https://arwen-undomiel.com/forum/

Do elves have pointed ears?
https://arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11522		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Velcayelde Elentiriel [ October 5th, 2006, 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Do elves have pointed ears?
As I was searching the internet for prosthetic pointy ears for my halloween costume, a thought struck me. Elves are nearly always portrayed as having pointed ears, but I don't remember elves' ears ever being mentioned in LotR, so I don't know if Tolkien actually intended his elves to have pointed ears. So I did a brief search, and found that there were a lot of people asking the same question, and not really anyone answering it. They seemed to be trying, but they all ended up saying that they were in favor of pointy ears but there wasn't much evidence on either side. So I thought, surely someone thought of this back when Tolkien was still alive and they could just ask him! But apparently they didn't. My dad said Tolkien probably didn't think it was a very big deal and left it for us to figure out, and that no one had bothered to wonder about it until they started making the movie. That made sense to me, but I'd like to hear some other opinions, and I'm very interested to see how many people think elve's ears are the same as humans.
So what does everyone think?
Author:  Aerandir [ October 6th, 2006, 1:28 am ]
Post subject: 
I don't have a copy nearby to check now, but I think that he might mention them having pointy ears in The Hobbit. I'm pretty sure he does, and I hope he does, too...it would be wierd to think of elves with 'human' ears...
Author:  Eyalan [ October 6th, 2006, 12:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
They are mentioned in the books as leave shaped. So yes, they were a bit pointy. But just slightly..
Author:  Nauriel Rochnur [ October 8th, 2006, 4:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think he compared the elves ears to hobbits ears, or vise versa.
Author:  Guest [ October 9th, 2006, 11:11 am ]
Post subject: 
of course Elves have pointy ears!! :boing: that is what makes them an ELF!!
Author:  Starlight [ October 9th, 2006, 8:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
I remember reading somewhere in the Tolkein I've read (The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, or LOTR) that he said something about Elves' ears, and I think Eyalan is right, he said they were leaf shaped. That's one of the things that I've always loved about Elves, the ears. I have a thing for pointy ears, what can I say? :P Good luck finding your prosthetic ones by the way. ;)
Author:  Altariel Frodo [ October 16th, 2006, 9:51 am ]
Post subject: 
I think they're pointy, but not like majorly. But pointy ears kind of make them... more elvish, IMHO.


I got my first pair of elf-ears just a few weeks ago, and I love them! :-D
Author:  The Nightingale [ October 31st, 2006, 4:35 am ]
Post subject: 
I do believe they are pointy. One thing you can do for a costume is put bandaids on your ears sort of in a triangle shape. I don't really know how to explain it by my sister did it 2 years ago for a costume party.
Author:  Ashwise [ December 1st, 2006, 8:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think theyhave the pointy ears to disinguish themselves from the humans. But in The Peoples of Middle-Earth, Tolkien described Arwen and her brothers being of elvish blood, but they looked like humans on the ouside...no pointy ears.
Author:  Ánië Súrion [ December 11th, 2006, 12:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Oh gosh, I sure HOPE Tolkien's Elves had pointy ears...my thinking's going to be all messed up if they don't.
Author:  Aredhel Ar-Feiniel [ January 10th, 2007, 9:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah Eyalan's right.. they were described as "leaf-shaped". But I don't think they were THAT prominent in the movie so that's alright.. it fits the leaf description very well. Life's good :P
Author:  Fíriel_18190 [ January 10th, 2007, 9:33 am ]
Post subject: 
I've never imagined elves without pointy ears. So for me they have pointy ears.
Author:  bow_and_arrow [ January 13th, 2007, 10:56 am ]
Post subject: 
They have to have pointy ears! For me they always have and always will do :P
Author:  Elthir [ November 2nd, 2011, 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Eyalan wrote:
They are mentioned in the books as leave shaped.



I would add this distinction: that Tolkien himself didn't publish anything about his Elves having leaf-shaped, or pointed ears -- also noting that (so far!) there's no description of Elf ears in any of the tales written from the 1950s onward (whether published by JRRT himself or not). Behind the scenes however, in posthumously published texts, we have some interesting evidence. In the late 1930s and early 1940s we have a couple entries from a text called Etymologies, and at this point in time* it seems to me that JRRT imagined the Quendian ears as leaf-shaped. Here are the entries in question...

Quote:
LAS1- *lasse leaf: Q lasse, N lhass; Q lasselanta leaf-fall, autumn, N lhasbelin (*lassekwene), cf. Q Narquelion [KWEL]. Lhasgalen Greenleaf (Gnome name of Laurelin). (Some think this is related to the next and *lassê ear. The Quendian ears were more pointed and leaf-shaped than Human).

LAS2- 'listen'. N lhaw 'ears' (of one person), old dual *lasu -whence singular lhewig. Q lar, lasta- 'listen'; lasta 'listening, hearing' - Lastalaika 'sharp-ears', a name, cf. N Lhathleg. N lhathron 'hearer, listener, eavesdropper' (*la(n)sro-ndo); lhathro or lhathrando 'listen in, eavesdrop'.



However...

Tolkien ultimately abandoned Etymologies, and arguably revised things within it, both large and small. And much later, by the early 1950s, JRRT had 'finished' The Lord of the Rings, incorporating some examples of his Elvish languages into the tale of course. One example is lassi 'leaves' (compare the name Legolas), or lasto 'listen', or lhaw 'ears'.

So the author-published examples seem to reveal that older ideas might still be in play here, but what about the meaning behind this seeming relationship? Was it still going to be noted that the Quendian ears were more pointed and leaf-shaped than human ears? In any case, now we have something written by JRRT after The Lord of the Rings was published, generally termed Words, Phrases and Passages -- posted here to compare with the older, abandoned Etymologies entry:

Quote:
Q lasse 'leaf' (S las); pl. lassi (S lais). It is only applied to certain kinds of leaves, especially those of trees, and would not e.g. be used of leaf of a hyacinth (linque). It is thus possibly related to LAS 'listen', and S-LAS stem of Elvish words for 'ear'; Q hlas, dual hlaru. Sindarin dual lhaw, singular lhewig.

lasse 'leaf'.



Comparing the two we have similar words, and we even have a similar reference to a 'possible' relationship -- but here we do not have an explicit statement, anyway, that the ears of the Elves specifically are more leaf-shaped and more pointed than human ears.


Possibly related is possibly related, but did Tolkien change his mind -- at least with respect to stating things so certainly? And who was to be the imagined author of these linguistic descriptions (assuming some of them were going to be published in some way, in theory) -- did this person ever actually see an Elf, or see an Elf with enough clarity to note the shape of Elvish ears? or did the 'popular idea' of more modern times hail from a detail within certain linguistic documents -- and if so, was it based on a theory, or an observable fact from an informed source?


Hmm :-D

__________
*this is about the same time as a letter in which Tolkien described: 'I picture a fairly human figure (...) fattish in the stomach, shortish in the leg. A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown).' JRRT, 1938

So even if Tolkien was referring to his Elves here with 'elvish', which has been debated in the past, again we seem to be, at least roughly, at about the same time period as the statement in Etymologies in any case.
Author:  EraisuithielS [ November 21st, 2011, 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do elves have pointed ears?
haha elves are too cool not to have pointy ears :P
of course they do. lol

...even if they werent supposed to in the first place (IF) - whateevverr they look better that way XDD
Author:  amariel [ November 23rd, 2011, 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do elves have pointed ears?
I believe Tolkien said elves had pointed features, so they probably have pointy ears too. Can't remember where I read that tho.
Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/