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Post subject: Why the Nazgûl fear water? Posted: January 4th, 2008, 9:48 am |
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Joined: 08 April 2007 Posts: 7483 Location: Hiding in your closet =P Country:
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I'm sorry if we have thread about this already.
I know that Tolkien never was able to explain why the Ringwraiths have fear from water.
But these days I started wondering what the answer could be.
Of course I associated the water with Ulmo and my first thought was that maybe the Nazgûl somehow feel his presence.
My other idea was the symbolic meaning of the water as a source of life,which is the opposite of the 'state' of the Ringwraiths.
Any other opinions?
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Post subject: Posted: January 4th, 2008, 10:22 am |
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Eä |
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The first image that comes to mind when I think of water and Ringwraiths is the scene on the border of Rivendell where the Nazgûl is washed away with the river Bruinen. In that case the Nazgûl were overthrown by Elrond's powers as lord of Rivendell and possibly also by the power of nature that was called upon to defend the place from the Shadow.
If the Ringwraiths have a general fear of water (I haven't really heard of it  ) it might be because they are.. well, wraiths... they don't have a body or substance so they are quite exposed to weather and elements, like fire and water.
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Post subject: Posted: January 5th, 2008, 5:54 am |
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Joined: 24 June 2005 Posts: 3759 Location: Berlin Country:
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Eä wrote: The first image that comes to mind when I think of water and Ringwraiths is the scene on the border of Rivendell where the Nazgûl is washed away with the river Bruinen. In that case the Nazgûl were overthrown by Elrond's powers as lord of Rivendell and possibly also by the power of nature that was called upon to defend the place from the Shadow.
Yeah I definitely agree with that.
If they were scared of water in general (not sure about it..) then I'd agree with what Elenthari said. Those would also be the first things coming to my mind, because in the Sil it says that Ulmo always cared a lot about Middle-Earth, so I could imagine that it has something to do with him.
But also the interpretation of water as a source of life sounds reasonable to me.
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Post subject: Posted: January 7th, 2008, 11:28 pm |
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Joined: 05 December 2007 Posts: 1772 Location: Middle-earth Country:
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When I first watched FOTR, I thought it a bit strange that the wraiths just stopped dead before the river. I didn't quite understand that. Nowhere in the books do I remember wraiths being afraid of any element. Though, the conlusions you made were reasonable, and possibly true.
_________________  Daughter of ~Syneva Lindenshield~ Mommy of SilverRose and Esteleth Wife of Beren
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Post subject: Posted: January 8th, 2008, 5:25 pm |
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Joined: 05 December 2007 Posts: 1772 Location: Middle-earth Country:
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But does it say anywhere that they are necessarily afraid of that?
_________________  Daughter of ~Syneva Lindenshield~ Mommy of SilverRose and Esteleth Wife of Beren
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Post subject: Posted: January 9th, 2008, 10:01 am |
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Joined: 08 April 2007 Posts: 7483 Location: Hiding in your closet =P Country:
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I think I read that in "The Unfinished Tales"...I'm not sure was it in the notes of Christopher Tolkien or in one of the letters of his father... 
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Post subject: Posted: January 9th, 2008, 2:43 pm |
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Joined: 24 June 2005 Posts: 3759 Location: Berlin Country:
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^
yeah, now you're saying it.. I think I read it somewhere in the UT, too.. aaaargh how could I forget about it 
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Post subject: Posted: January 9th, 2008, 8:13 pm |
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Joined: 05 December 2007 Posts: 1772 Location: Middle-earth Country:
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Yes... I'm not quite that far. I'm still reading The Book of Lost Tales Vol. 1, so I've a ways to go still! Thanks for the insight!
_________________  Daughter of ~Syneva Lindenshield~ Mommy of SilverRose and Esteleth Wife of Beren
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Post subject: Posted: January 10th, 2008, 6:11 am |
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Joined: 24 June 2005 Posts: 3759 Location: Berlin Country:
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^
yeah well, I've never read the Book of Lost Tales so I don't think that we have heaps of more information than you do. In fact I've read none of the HoME series, but only LotR, the Sil, the Hobbit and the UT
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Post subject: Posted: January 11th, 2008, 1:40 am |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 600 Location: Australia
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i dont remember reading anything about that in UT.i guess they have the fear of the elements(fire,water,light) maybe because they represent life and the Nazgul hate them cos they are ruined,undead mockeries of life.or something like that.
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Post subject: Posted: January 11th, 2008, 3:18 pm |
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Joined: 05 December 2007 Posts: 1772 Location: Middle-earth Country:
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Good point
_________________  Daughter of ~Syneva Lindenshield~ Mommy of SilverRose and Esteleth Wife of Beren
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Post subject: Posted: January 11th, 2008, 4:03 pm |
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Joined: 24 June 2005 Posts: 3759 Location: Berlin Country:
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goldelf wrote: i dont remember reading anything about that in UT.
I think it's in one of the comments by Christopher Tolkien, not in one of the stories themselves. Also, I'm not 100% sure if it was in the UT, but I believe it is.
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Post subject: Posted: January 11th, 2008, 4:20 pm |
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Joined: 08 April 2007 Posts: 7483 Location: Hiding in your closet =P Country:
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It's definitely not in "The Silmarillion".I have the book here and I searched for this note but I haven't found it.I haven't read HoME either (though I want to,but I can't find it here even in English  ).So I think it was in UT.
I agree with what gold elf said-actually this was one of my opinions *points the 1st post*
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 Return of the Rings 2011- make it happen
sig.set:by me; my unbiological sissy is Aerlinn
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Post subject: Posted: January 12th, 2008, 3:39 pm |
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Joined: 07 October 2006 Posts: 2474 Location: From the north I have come, need has driven me and I have passed the doors to the path of the M6
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Im pretty sure that in the Sil that Morgoths servants (especially his orcs and other soldiers) feared the water, and made no attempt to attack via it, I suppose because they couldnt control it at all.
Another reason I think could b because of the downfall fo Numenor. Sauron, who was caught up in it may be scared of it, and since the Nazgul are tied to Sauron's life force and power, maybe they have his fears or whatnot.
But hey, thats my two pence.....
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Post subject: Posted: January 12th, 2008, 9:27 pm |
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Joined: 05 December 2007 Posts: 1772 Location: Middle-earth Country:
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That makes so much sense
_________________  Daughter of ~Syneva Lindenshield~ Mommy of SilverRose and Esteleth Wife of Beren
Last edited by Precious on July 13th, 2008, 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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