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ESRR: Cirith Ungol to the Field of Cormallen https://arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21672 |
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Author: | Minuialwen [ August 14th, 2011, 1:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | ESRR: Cirith Ungol to the Field of Cormallen |
This week we read through Chapter V, the Steward and the King. 1.) Why is it important that Gollum be responsible for the destruction of the Ring? Why does Frodo say, "But for him, Sam, I could not have destroyed the Ring"? What otherwise would have enabled Frodo to destroy the Ring, and what might have been the consequences for Frodo? |
Author: | Eä [ August 28th, 2011, 4:27 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: ESRR: Cirith Ungol to the Field of Cormallen |
I always think it's so interesting that Sam gets to be a Ring-bearer - and he's all Hobbit-like about it and quite un-affected... except he's not.. because being so close to Mordor and the Balck Tower the Ring already struggles to work its power on him. Gollum steals and murders for the Ring, Bilbo comes by it through rather questionable ways, Frodo inherits it and steps up to be an official Ring-bearer.. but Sam.. he just takes it because 'we can't have it lying around there on a dead Mr. Frodo'. Like if he was cleaning his garden back home. ![]() In the chapter Mount Doom I can see why people become Sam-fans if they haven't been convinced already. ![]() Quote: 'Do you remember that bit of rabbit, Mr. Frodo?' he said. 'And our place under the warm bank in Captain Faramir's country, the day I saw an oliphant?' I do believe it is necessary for our understanding of what it's like to hike through Mordor with a Ring of Doom. Also, it makes Sam's bravery and optimism so much more sad and joyful and very much needed. Tolkien absolutely gave the best monologues to Sam, so much WIN!! And we learn about Frodo's burden and the power of Sauron.. but it's just so... depressing...'No, I'm afraid not, Sam' said Frodo. 'At least, I know that such things happened, but I cannot see them. No taste of food, no feel of water, no sound of wind, no memory of tree or grass or flower, no image of moon or star are left to me, I am naked in the dark, Sam, and there is no veil between me and the wheel of fire. I begin to see it even with my waking eyes, and all else fades. And then enter Gollum!! I'm still wondering why Gollum eventually took the Ring back. He had sworn an oath on the Precious.. did he just forget about that when he realised what Frodo's intentions was or didn't he care anymore? Or was it the Gollum in him that claimed it back as 'his own'? Also, do you think Gollum tripped because he broke the oath? So that somehow Frodo's words came true.. that he would meet his doom should he ever break his promise? I mean Gollum might as well just have run off with the Ring (and gotten caught by the Nazgûl and Sauron would have gotten the Ring back and destroyed Middle-earth. The end). I really like how Frodo takes the Ring and claims it for his own at the very fires of Mount Doom (way to set up a dramatic climax, Tolkien!), history repeats itself nicely and it shows just how powerful the Ring is. I do wonder though if Sam would have pushed Frodo into the fire if he had to.. if that's why Tolkien/Gandalf made Sam go along.. because he had something to do before the end too. I believe Sam would have realised the danger, he would have understood the consequences if Frodo kept the Ring, and I like to believe that Sam would have made a Harry Potter/Voldemort in the Battle of Hogwarts and thrown himself in with Frodo.. He was brave enough and he was ready to die for the cause. |
Author: | Minuialwen [ August 30th, 2011, 11:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: ESRR: Cirith Ungol to the Field of Cormallen |
Ugh, don't say such awful things, Ea! ![]() ![]() Also: Frodo's gloom and doom mentality. I think it's rather tragic, of course; Frodo, who loved the Shire, and thought he wanted to go adventuring but then found out he was wrong and the Shire was his home after all and he wanted to go back but he couldn't, because this thing had gotten bigger than what he wanted, and he had to see it through. But I think Gandalf's death was the first blow and Amon Hen was the death stroke as far as holding onto any hope that he'd come out of this alive or even succeed in destroying the Ring. I can't really imagine what that would have been like, marching on into Mordor, completely convinced and resigned to the fact that sooner or later, you're going to be caught and killed. ![]() Now, on to Sam! For Sam, in the beginning, it was very simple: Mr. Frodo was going into Mordor, and so that was where Sam was going. He didn't think too far ahead, other than to make vague plans for 'when it was all over'. He followed Mr. Frodo and he protected Mr. Frodo and that was that. But then, at the beginning of RotK, they switch roles, and now it's Sam leading and Frodo following in his footsteps. I think Sam's motivation was almost the same; Frodo had to destroy the Ring and he couldn't do it by himself so Sam had to help him. But Frodo is now following Sam's lead, and if Sam sat down or gave up, I think at that point Frodo would have as well. *phew* Trying to understand hobbits is hard work. Nurr? Am I committing blasphemy? |
Author: | Eä [ September 3rd, 2011, 1:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: ESRR: Cirith Ungol to the Field of Cormallen |
I'm aware that it's such a hypothetical question because.. well, the story is written with what specific ending the author chose. So here is where we leave the average reader behind and go geek. ![]() Also, I like to think that Tolkien might have had wanted the Sam-character to step up in case that the Frodo-character would fail in the end. I'm glad he chose Gollum for the job though, that way we get our happy ending. Umm.. okay, I lost myself now... ![]() Yeah, I'm really warming up to Sam.. he definitely has the most growth and development during the trip (can you call a quest.. mission.. thing to Mordor a 'quest'? ![]() |
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