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J.K.Rowling and J.R.R.Tolkien
https://arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3459		 Page 1 of 6
Author:  Arwen Arianna the CACTUS [ October 27th, 2005, 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  J.K.Rowling and J.R.R.Tolkien
:explode: Did J.K. Rowling steal things from LOTR?I'd just like to see what you say!
I mean, just think about it: The Dementors-the Nazgûl; Harry &co-Frodo& co; Dumbledore-Gandalf, the horcruxes-the ring, the hidden door in the cave-the gate of Moria... I could continue, but I will quit here and see what you think.So, pleeease!! Answer me!!!! :bounce:
Author:  Antigone [ October 27th, 2005, 3:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well I can't excatly talk about stealing because in the world of
Fiction authors sometimes borrow ideas from each other.

Dementors - Nazgul: Yeah, there is some alikeness between those but if you think about the effects ... Nazgul can kill you while a Dementor sucks out your soul. OK, they are both scary :hide: - I can't deny this :).
Harry & co. - Frodo & co.: Famous world-saviours. Just dunno what to say here :blush:
Dumbo - Gand: We gotta have an old, wise wizard - even in our RLs.
Horcruxes - The One Ring: An element to help destroying the enemy. Yes, there actually are some potential parallels between. But Horcrux destorys a part of soul while the Ring destroyed Saouron himself (again; whole vs. part of)
Hidden door in the Cave - Moria: Uh, I have to re-read this part ...


OK, that was my POV. :)
Author:  Arwen Arianna the CACTUS [ October 27th, 2005, 6:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanx for your reply, Elf Girl! As I said, I just wanted to c what ppl think :)
Author:  vikingmaiden [ October 27th, 2005, 9:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't believe she stole it at all. If she did, then Harry Potter would be exactly like LotR. There are similarities between the two books, but if you really think about it, no author can be completely and utterly original--unless they were the first person ever in the history of the universe to write a story. Writers draw ideas (conciously or not) from a well of universal themes. This can be seen if you compare different cultures' mythologies. You have parallel themes like the Irish hero Cuchulain, the Norse hero Sigemund, and Hercules, probably the most well-known mythological hero. The Irish and Norse didn't copy the Greeks, but they have their own versions of the 'same story'. It's kind of weird if you think about it. But no, JK Rowling did not copy Tolkien.
Author:  Herenya [ October 27th, 2005, 11:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree with vikingmaiden.

I'd say in writing fantasy, it is very difficult not to use pre-existing fantasy ideas. Also, it is difficult not to be influenced by other things you have read when you are writing. I don't think any stealing went on - maybe some borrowing... but I highly doubt one would want to steal ideas, especially from someone well-known like Tolkien. You'd want it to be your own work.

I'd be surprised if Rowling wasn't influenced in some way or another by Tolkien, and I don't think that her books copy his in anyway. :)
Author:  Arwen Arianna the CACTUS [ October 28th, 2005, 3:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, I never said she copied the whole story, just a few things.... and an author can never know all the books in the world, and therefore cannot be sure what others already wrote... But when J.K Rowling started writing HP, Tolkien was, well, known , but not that popular...of course HP and LOTR are NOT the same, Rowling created a lot of her own, and I know that you sometimes collect ideas for your own work......(I never wanted to say "this is right or wrong" but wanted to c what others think :-) ) Thanx for replying
Author:  Herenya [ October 28th, 2005, 3:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, I guess "stealing ideas" has negative connatations that imply a right/wrong arguement... so I guess that's why I responded the way I did! :)
Author:  Legolin [ October 28th, 2005, 4:53 am ]
Post subject: 
And Tolkien himsel is influenced by manu things. Finnish epos 'Kalevala' for example.
Author:  Arwen Arianna the CACTUS [ October 28th, 2005, 5:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, I think every writer is influenced by something. Thanx for replying ;-)
Author:  Antigone [ October 28th, 2005, 2:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Strange enough but in the HBP book I've seen Proudfoot guy :D
Author:  Eä [ October 28th, 2005, 7:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree with vikingmaiden (think I remember this topic from the old forum).
When writing this kind of stuff the write will consciously and unconsciously draw on whatever he/she's been learning, reading, seeing through his/her life. Basically the mythologic world is made up from the same archetypes, same conflicts, the good and the bad, the light against the dark and if you put it down this huge melting pot and shake it you will get a slightly different outcome everytime but made up from the same ingredients!

I don't believe Rowling purposely stole from Tolkiens work. I think she did a good job on creating a world of her own drawing on already existing mythology. And think about it.... wouldn't it be almost impossible to come up with something completely new? :angel:
Author:  Arwen Arianna the CACTUS [ October 29th, 2005, 4:31 am ]
Post subject: 
That's an interesting point of view. Thanx. :)
Author:  Nienor [ October 29th, 2005, 8:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Ivy said it very well. I don't think J.K. Rowling stole from anyone...yes, there are a few books out there that 'steal' or copy. Take Charlie Bone, for instance. Terrible literature..they were just taking advantage of the HP craze. (Just my opinion, thanks.) But J.K. was one of the most original authors I've ever read from...actually, I can say she's more original than Tolkien. That's not a bad thing. I'm just saying that Tolkien based a lot of his ideas on existing things...and that was what he aimed for, to build a mythology. But J.K. pretty much made up everything. Who would have thought of something like the Pensieve? That's probably my favorite thing in Harry Potter. I could really use it some days. It's such a clever play on words!
I really love J.K. Rowling as an author who didn't write for the public, she wrote for herself and for her readers. She didn't try to give people just what they wanted. That's worthy of recognition.
Author:  Arwen Arianna the CACTUS [ October 29th, 2005, 10:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Yep, the Pensive is a really useful thing....Actually I like Rowlings books, she a good writer (even though she doesn't write like Tolkien at all)....But I don't think I'm a HP fan (well, I read volume 1-3 about 20 times :blush: , but the others were not that good, or perhaps it was me, dunno :blush: )
Sure, she created a lot herself, and I respect her and her writings. (But LOTR is way better :) )
Author:  Eä [ October 29th, 2005, 11:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, basically what HP and LotR has in common is the genre, they are both fantasy. After having said that it is difficult to make direct comparisons. I mean what about all the things that seem to be completely different in the writings?! I think they tend to be compared widely because they are both bestsellers, though LotR didn't get all this attention until PJ started making the movies.... and wasn't it after Rowling had already written the first HP book? Tolkien's books had a revival after the movies came out and attracted new fans and new readers.
As Nienor said I'm sure other works are much more similar til either HP or LotR than the two are to each other. :angel:
Author:  Bellethiel [ October 29th, 2005, 6:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree, it is hard to make direct comparisons once you get past the fantasy genre. I don't think you can say one is better than the other, except by your own personal opinion. The writing styles are completely different, for one thing. Tolkien uses very elegant words, and writes in a very poetic way. Rowling writes in a less poetic way, but she uses her words very cleverly (such as the wordplay Nienor mentioned in 'Pensieve') and you have to admit, she makes you laugh and cry within the same page. While Rowling's style is more lighthearted than Tolkiens, both authors manage to stir up very strong emotions, just in different ways.
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