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Iluvatar=Daisy?
https://arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6429		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Existential Genius [ February 26th, 2006, 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Iluvatar=Daisy?
Just wondering...

Where did Iluvatar come from?


Did he pop out of the ground... like a daisy?!?!

Peace Out,
Tasare
Author:  Aerandir [ February 27th, 2006, 3:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Um, the whole concept of Iluvatar would be unrealistic if he began. I think that he always existed, never really beginning. Besides....there wasn't any ground for him to pop out of. ^_^
Author:  Eä [ February 27th, 2006, 6:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Lol, I like the idea of Ilúvatar being a daisy... beautiful metaphor! But... I wonder who watered it....

*ahem* Well, I agree with Aerandir.. the concept of a creator is that he/she creates, and is beyond time and space. :angel:
Author:  Existential Genius [ February 27th, 2006, 9:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well... if he existed forever and always, he probably plays a lot of solitaire... :confused2:
Author:  Ivreniel [ February 28th, 2006, 11:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, exactly, Illuvetar is supposed to be a being completely out of time, who has always existed and always will exist. Rather mind-boggling, isn't it? :)
Author:  Aduial [ March 6th, 2006, 2:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
:yes:

Tolkien intended for Eru (the One, the One and Only) Illuvatar (Father over all) to be eternal - completely outside time, completely outside of space. He creates the rules of creation therefore he was never created.

(not unlike...uh...never mind ;))
Author:  Sapphire [ March 6th, 2006, 9:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
^^^What Aduial said...

in essenece, Tolkien's Eru was God....the creator couldn't have been created. That just wouldn't make sense...
Author:  Teh FF [ March 7th, 2006, 10:12 am ]
Post subject: 
Ilúvatar is just the real god of the world, therefore he had no beginning and will have no ending. As Tolkien was a devout Catholic, he saw Ilúvatar as the Christian God.
Author:  Beriadanwen [ March 7th, 2006, 10:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Doesn't make sense to me either, so I just try and forget that part of the story :P
Author:  Ardhoniel [ March 14th, 2006, 2:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Iluvatar is THE creator - like God. He was always there and always will be. And if you don't believe in god, (which i don't) Think of him as the Universe. It always was there, and it always will be there. It's neverending and forever eternal.

That's how i understand it anways.
Author:  Captain Jack [ March 21st, 2006, 1:55 am ]
Post subject: 
He was always there. He just is. He's the creator of everything, so yeah, think of him as god, if you beleive in him.
Author:  Ardhoniel [ March 21st, 2006, 9:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, hehe. Instead of saying "Oh God!" now, I tend to say "Illuvatar!" lol
Author:  Captain Jack [ March 21st, 2006, 10:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
I say By Elbereth! People stare at me...
Author:  Witch_King_of_Angmar [ March 21st, 2006, 11:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here's also something to burn your brains on, he doesn't have time, he exists outside of it, he looks upon history from outside like a huge map.
Author:  Sprunkit [ March 23rd, 2006, 4:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Sapphire wrote:
...the creator couldn't have been created. That just wouldn't make sense...

[philosophical]
Or... there could be many different levels of creators and creations. Now that's a confusing thought. :P

[/philosophical]
Author:  Witch_King_of_Angmar [ March 23rd, 2006, 6:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
back on subject, the reason that the idea is so hard to comprehend is because we live where everything has a beginning and an end, where we live is more commonly called time. and if I were beyond this, I would be unaffected by time, which would be below me. thus god could be interpreted as a being in a higher dimension.
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