Has anyone every appreciated how Tolkein understood the beauty in sorrow. That sense of of timelesness of it. I think he understood it (or at least illistrated it better) than the great Billy Shakespear. Im sure old William would have fealt like a hack had he read the story of Beren and Luthien. What is it about sorrow that is beautiful? Thoughts?

Yes I also think that Tolkien understood it very well, because there is a beauty in sorrow but I can't really explain what it is and why there is a beauty in sorrow...

_________________
[!+~^$#&:;]

that's a nice way to put it...
i agree.

JRR Tolkien did all of it so well. The wording of emotion and everything.

_________________
<BR>

Fan of. Aragorn, Arwen, Fellowhip, Hermione, History, Hobbits, Maidens of LotR, Unity, Pevensies, Pippin, Sam

Why is there beauty in sorrow? I suppose why there's beauty in the Tolokien-esq sorrow is that he's very poetic in how he expresses it.
But more than that, I believe it's because we can sense something greater beyond the immediate circumstances in his tales which point us to beauty. They're all part of a great story, a great dance of life, and even when one part is finished, there's always someone or something who will carry it on. Plus, that specific part of the story is over, complete, even when it feels oh too short. Hope remains. Light above and beyond shadows.
How beautiful is that? It's glorious, if you think about it.

_________________
Starting October 13th: globe trotting from my kitchen. Follow along on Cook In Fifty-Two

There is beauty in every single thing --- you just need to recognize it.

[sorry... feeling very poetic ]

_________________
<center>[font=Times New Roman]<img src="http://tinyurl.com/63ongu"><br><br>From sorrow & pain I find my strength ... the more pain I feel, the more I see /// July the 4th 2008, first day of my life...<br><br>I met Eru on September 5th 2006 ♥ (and April 15th 2008!)<br><br>Censorship Causes Blindness</center>[/font]

Yeah I never subscribed to that "beauty in everything" theory.

Well I'm sure everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but that was rude. While I myself don't, as you say 'subscribe to that beauty in everything' I do find that there is beauty to be found in sorrow. In fact, for a prolouge to a English project I explained how through tragedy comes a greater good, how tragedy paints a picture more fuller than one for the heck of it. Because there is that love of that fallen thing. Indeed I find myself weeping or saddened for someone or something that has died or removed, even though I may have never thought second about them. Tolkien, I admit, draws you in with his tales of bittersweet goodness.

_________________


"Fight Tonight For Metal One And All".
http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7521

Well, a less fancy way of saying it is : "every cloud has a silver lighting" .
Come to think of it, in almost all his works, Tolkien leaves a glimmer of hope.. no matter how faint or distant.[/s]

I think that's rather like the story of life, if you would have it that way. I think a lot of Tolkien's stories deal with something beyond--something grand and within reach. Life is full of a lot of suffering, but there is beauty when we realise that there is something nobler out there. Something to aspire to.

One of the most interesting concepts is that beauty, along with most other things of our world (sorrow, happiness and so on) are transient, and it is this realisation that inspires us to believe that there is hope, for example, at the "End of All Things" (irrespective of whether it is Tolkien or not).

Irrespective of your view on the objective truth or fallacy of this world view, it does (in some!) invoke a sense of poety, and writers such as Yeats (in "Sailing to Byzantium") and Tolkien know and use this.

-- niggle

I think one of the things that makes it beautiful is because it can move us, make us feel it. If a story is just happy, we are just happy. But it seems stronger if it can move our mood to sad, or make us cry.

_________________
$%=#?&
<a href="http://www.politickles.com/middleearth"><img src="http://www.politickles.com/middleearth/images/linkbuttons/mebnr3.jpg" border="0"></a>

^
exactly, I think pain and sorrow and all that give a story, but also someone's life more depth.

_________________
[!+~^$#&:;]

Everyone has some wonderful thoughts. One thing i believe is that we are meant for something greater than this world, and even than Time, so everything in this life can't really measure up to whatever it is that we long for, even if we don't know what. Anyway, Tolkien had an exquisite way of expressing sorrow and beauty.

Btw, niggle, you've read Leaf by Niggle, I presume? (I haven't, but I hear it's good, and I'd like to read it eventually.)

_________________

Avi and banner by ForeverFrodo. Words on banner by me.
Proud Frolass
Resident Elvengoth

^
Leaf by Niggle is good...

_________________
[!+~^$#&:;]

I look forward to reading it.

_________________

Avi and banner by ForeverFrodo. Words on banner by me.
Proud Frolass
Resident Elvengoth

I think it's very difficult for some people to understand this beauty in everything Tolkien described, because I've made the experience that many people don't understand why I like these stories so much and I never knew what to tell them, but I think that this is a very important aspect...

_________________
[!+~^$#&:;]