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| Werewolves and Vampires in the Silmarilion? https://arwen-undomiel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7949 |
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| Author: | Eomira [ May 2nd, 2006, 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Werewolves and Vampires in the Silmarilion? |
I have heard reliable sorces that say definately not, but yet some people continue to say there are...whose right? |
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| Author: | Antigone [ May 2nd, 2006, 4:15 pm ] |
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Vampire was that T-woman... Thuringwethil or something like that... Idk 
Werewolf... Oh ya, Draug, okay something... EoA says: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/t/thuringwethil.html http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/d/draugluin.html ::ingore me, i´m clueless ::
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| Author: | Aduial-Galad [ May 2nd, 2006, 10:10 pm ] |
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There's a werewolf, Draug, i know that for sure, and like Elfenwen said and Thuringwethil was saurons vampire messenger |
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| Author: | Aemornion [ May 3rd, 2006, 9:34 am ] |
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I follow your meaning Eomira as we talked about it in person. When we consider Lord of the Rings only, there had been NO WRITTEN evidence that there were werewolves or vampires about during the War of the Ring (only ordinary wolves (remember the first attack upon the fellowship as they started off from Imladris) and bats (the last were nowhere mentioned also)). Things change slightly when we head to the first age. There were some forms of werevolves and so called vampires in the Silmarillion but this needs further explenation. Draugluin (interesting translation... "Blue Wolf") was considered a servant of Morgoth and mostly Sauron. Here we need to set one thing straight! These werewolves were in their shape ordinary wolves (the ones that you see in the zoo i.e.) but were inhabited by evil spirits and thus drove the poor animals in the service of the dark lord. The fact that Draugluin was an "ordinary" wolf was the fact that Beren used his hyde and fur as a disguise when out to snare the Silmarili from Mirgoth's lair. Considering the so called vampire lady, Thuringwethil, very little records are known about her. She was a messanger of Sauron as it is said in the EoA but she was most likely destroyed in the fall of the wolves island. Things need to be straight here also. Tolkien's vampire(s) were no bloodsuckers, and this one was the only individual accounted for!! I know why Eomira is asking these questions and I fully support her motives for it. Shame that people who have absolutley no knowledge of the full Tolkien's design (I don't have it also, nor some of the scholars who study him almost their entire life becouse the world built by him is utterly huge and complex) generalize the situation and thus we got places filled with vampires who drink eachother's blood, originaly come from gondor (?!), and literaly molest the original design of the grand work. I'm a purist by nature when it comes to these things and I can rant of for ages when I know people are wrong in what they do. Offended or not, honestly not my problem! @ Eomira - I believe I told you the main reason why it is so, but I will not hasitate one split second not to say it in public also. The people on who you think are mostly young children with basic lives and the only thing they enjoy most likely were the movies (exceptions exist however), go to school and have everyday normal youth life. As you know the big movie hit for this year and the last one was "Underground" and obviously kids got inspired by it to form up their own clans and packs and try to integrate it into JRRT's world. What came out of it, I believe you can see with your own eyes.... With this I also I openly ask the moderators and the Webmistress to look in closer about this situation and to make the rightful judegement regarding what content should be allowed on this marvelous site devoted to Lord of the Rings in prior. |
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| Author: | Eomira [ May 3rd, 2006, 11:34 am ] |
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*grins at Aemor's speech and claps politely* feel better now? |
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| Author: | Erethror [ May 4th, 2006, 9:48 pm ] |
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Err, alright. Here is the information presented to us in the index of the Silmarillion concerning Thuringwethil the 'vampire', and 'werewolves': Thuringwethil: 'Woman of Secret Shadow', the messenger of Sauron from Tol-in-Gaurhoth who took the form of a great bat, and in whose shape Luthien entered Angband. 210-11 On page 210 it says: "...and the bat-fell of Thuringwethil. She was the messenger of Sauron, and was wont to fly in vampire's form to Angband" Therefore it is safe to say there was 'a' vampire in the Silmarillion, however a vampire in the sense that she was a sentient being who took the form of a bat often, which vampires, according to legend, have the power to do, and themselves are wont to fly in. As for 'werewolves', of these we've no more information than we have of 'vampires'. However, it is safe to say they were evil wolves, much like wargs (and now I remember a discussion on another LotR forum which we debated whether wargs and werewolves were one in the same or not). The Silmarillion (205) tells us that Draugluin was the greatest, oldest, and lord and sire of the werewolves of Angband. And when he is slain by Huan, the hound of Valinor, Sauron turns himself into the greatest and most dreadful werewolf that has trodden the lands. It is interesting that 'werewolf' should be used, though, because as a professor of languages, and an expert on Anglo-Saxon in his own right, Tolkien must have realized that 'werewolf' quite literally means 'man-wolf'. So were the werewolves of the Silmarillion in actuality men who, whether wilfully else under the enchantments of Morgoth, turned into fell wolves, or were they plain old wolves that had evil spirits cast into them? Most likely the second, but then Beorn comes into the picture... We've really not much to go on do we? |
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| Author: | Aemornion [ May 6th, 2006, 4:41 pm ] |
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I agree with you Erethor, not much can be spoken about these things. Thuringwethil was most certainly a Maia in her form and most of them were accounted for, so basicly if there were any vampires or werewolves in the first age, none survived! |
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| Author: | Velcayelde Elentiriel [ July 26th, 2006, 12:38 am ] |
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perhaps Thuringwethil was a vampire bat? |
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| Author: | Olwë [ July 26th, 2006, 6:25 pm ] |
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and saurons island in the first age(forgot name) was the island of werewolves or something like that |
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| Author: | Celebrian o Imladris [ August 24th, 2006, 8:29 pm ] |
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yes it is true you can look it up in the silmarillion a the book of lost tales there was a vampire like creatue and there were werewolves. at one time the werewovles were actually going to be giant cats but werewolves were used instead. if i were you i would read up on this topic it's rather interesting |
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| Author: | Celebrian o Imladris [ August 24th, 2006, 10:27 pm ] |
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by the way it was called: tol-in-gaurhoth, isle of werewolves  ahhh i did it again! i posted b4 i looked to see if i had the last post i am sorry im tryin gto stop taht habbit 
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| Author: | Lady of Taniquetil [ November 27th, 2006, 2:49 pm ] |
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i just read a part when Luthien i think went to Anband with the Huan and Huan caught Sauron by the neck when they were fighting and his spirit left his body and he transformed into a vampire and drifted away. pretty interesting and neat. |
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| Author: | Pechethu [ December 16th, 2006, 3:07 pm ] |
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If I remember right, wasn't Sauron or another one of Morgoth's right-hand men a werewolf? |
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