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Post subject: Posted: July 11th, 2005, 12:19 pm |
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Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 15181 Location: Minas Morgul
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Mablung wrote: I think that Denethor's death was inevitable, but I don't think that he necessarily deserved it. Of all the characters in the story, I think Denethor suffered the most in the film treatment - not through John Noble's performance which was excellent - but through the screenwriting.
In the film, Denethor is seen as already going mad, uncaring, stubborn and ineffectual yet this is not how he is portrayed in the books. Very little of what you see in the film can relate back to the book version so it inevitable that he has become such an evil figure.
The book Denethor has the beacons lit before Gandalf even gets to Minas Tirith and is in complete, and sane, command of the forces of Gondor up until Faramir is brought back injured. The relationship between Denethor and Faramir is a lot less hostile as well - when Faramir is sent back out to fight, the battle is still going on so Denethor is not sending him out to die.
The only reason that Denethor has to be killed off is that he is not willing to stand down for Aragorn. Not surprising as he has been ruler for thirty odd years - and his replacement is Thorongil, who was more important to Denethor's father than Denethor was. It's simply too sticky an issue for them to work around, so it is better if he is just removed from the picture.
So in my opinion yes, he had to die, but he did not deserve it.
*claps*
I applaud you.
So...
*points*
What Mablung said.
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Post subject: Posted: July 12th, 2005, 5:49 am |
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Joined: 09 July 2005 Posts: 9460 Location: in the temple of love
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I agree. although it would be nice to read a fic where Denethor survives... i'll check on FF.net if anyone was so nice and wrote it 
_________________ <center>[font=Times New Roman]<img src="http://tinyurl.com/63ongu"><br><br>From sorrow & pain I find my strength ... the more pain I feel, the more I see /// July the 4th 2008, first day of my life...<br><br>I met Eru on September 5th 2006 ♥ (and April 15th 2008!)<br><br>Censorship Causes Blindness</center>[/font]
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Post subject: Posted: July 12th, 2005, 1:17 pm |
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Joined: 26 June 2005 Posts: 269 Location: Henneth Annun
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Try checking out the stories by Evendim on FF.net - she has written a couple of stories where Denethor not only survives but is reconciled with Faramir. There are loads of stories on her home page, but I think that The White Rod is one of them - another is The House of Telcontar.
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Post subject: Posted: July 13th, 2005, 1:58 am |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 4293 Location: In my Mind... ?
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i thought he should have lived. not that i liked his character or anything, its just when he was dying he started to appreciate faramir more. i hoped that he would be saved and be a 'good' father to faramir
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Post subject: Posted: July 20th, 2005, 10:45 pm |
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Joined: 17 June 2005 Posts: 180 Location: CANADA
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I think that is a tough question. Judging whether someone deserves to die or not. Not one that can be easily answered. It depends on who you liked better. In on instance if you liked Boromir a lot, then Denethor's favouratism for him may make sense to you. If you're a Faramir fan, U might hate Denethor for liking Boromir "better". There are so many different points of view, and mine personally can only be described as other's have said in Gandalf's wise words:
Quote: Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.
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Post subject: Posted: August 10th, 2005, 10:21 pm |
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Joined: 07 June 2005 Posts: 84
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Gandalf's words, just the solution. So some who live deserve death, some who die deserve life---Tolkien obviously believed in that. The thing is, did Tolkien think Denethor deserved death? Probably no one will ever find out. But I wish Denethor could have lived. I wish he could have been able to talk to his son again. But he didn't. That's why it's so sad.
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Post subject: Posted: August 17th, 2005, 5:55 pm |
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I think he should of learnt how to stop drop and roll  denethor
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Post subject: Posted: September 10th, 2005, 9:23 pm |
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^good points Elf friends!!!
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Post subject: Posted: September 11th, 2005, 3:30 am |
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Joined: 09 July 2005 Posts: 9460 Location: in the temple of love
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Mablung wrote: Try checking out the stories by Evendim on FF.net
OK thanx  , I'll take a look
_________________ <center>[font=Times New Roman]<img src="http://tinyurl.com/63ongu"><br><br>From sorrow & pain I find my strength ... the more pain I feel, the more I see /// July the 4th 2008, first day of my life...<br><br>I met Eru on September 5th 2006 ♥ (and April 15th 2008!)<br><br>Censorship Causes Blindness</center>[/font]
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Post subject: Runaway feelings.... Posted: July 22nd, 2006, 8:20 pm |
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Joined: 03 June 2006 Posts: 302 Location: Portland, Oregon USA Country:
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Larael wrote: ...so yes Denethor deserved to die, plus he treated Faramir his only living son like dirt. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR.......I hate Denethor so much!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Heh heh! I so empathize with that outbreak of emotion! But you must reign those feelings in, as I am trying to do, and realize the wisdom of Gandolf's words that have already been quoted many times in this thread.
_________________ "If you do not find a way, no one will."
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Post subject: Posted: August 2nd, 2006, 11:37 pm |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 4449 Location: Northern USA
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I don't think that Denethor deserved to die, but it wasn't like I was sad when he died  He wasn't evil enough, in my opinion, to DESERVE to die. I mean, in the end, he really did care about Faramir...a little  He did go kind of wack-o though....*scratches head*
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