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 Post subject: Ever tought about it?
PostPosted: June 28th, 2005, 7:34 am 
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I know this might be stupid, but in tolkien`s world the elves are leaving for the undying lands from the grey havens and it just makes me wonder cause if they go there by ship.... why couldn´t Sauron follow them there only ships of his own....and always when some talks about it`s like there is no coming back as if it was a group suicide! just trying to kill my time...

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PostPosted: June 28th, 2005, 9:55 am 
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When a being leaves for the Undying Lands, they must first have permission before they can enter. Valinor was taken forever out of the physical realm of Arda, and if anyone but those the Valar have deemed may come, they would just be sailing around the whole world, never to find it. In this way you can think of it as a kind of heaven, though mortals who journeyed there would still eventually die. Sauron or any other evil being would never have been able to get there.

This quote might help:

From Letter #325:
The 'immortals' who were permitted to leave Middle-earth and seek Aman -- the undying lands of Valinor and Eressëa, an island assigned to the Eldar -- set sail in ships specially made and hallowed for this voyage, and steered due West towards the ancient site of these lands. They only set out after sundown; but if any keen-eyed observer from that shore had watched one of these ships he might have seen that it never became hull-down but dwindled only by distance until it vanished in the twilight: it followed the straight road to the true West and not the bent road of the earth's surface. As it vanished it left the physical world. There was no return. The Elves who took this road and those 'mortals' who by special grace went with them, had abandoned the 'History of the world' and could play no further part in it.

There have been illustrations that give an idea of the Straight Road, John Howe's 'The Grey Havens' may be useful.


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PostPosted: June 28th, 2005, 9:57 am 
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I thought that there had to be something like that.....

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PostPosted: June 28th, 2005, 1:58 pm 
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Very appropriate and explanative quote, Undomiel! :angel:
That's correct. The Undying Lands are no longer a part of Arda and only the ones who are graced by the Valar may go. All others wont be able to find it but will be bound to the circles of the world and no matter how far they sail they will only end up at where they started! :angel:

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PostPosted: June 28th, 2005, 2:29 pm 
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Bilbo, Frodo, Gandalf, and Gimli are not Elves but have been graced by the Valar so are aloud to enter the Undying Lands.


Thats just in ase you were wondering....... :bye2:


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PostPosted: June 29th, 2005, 2:57 pm 


They etered with permition, right my Elf friends? Otherwise, they would have died, but Gandalf was a not mortal, I think that he would have entered any way, right??? :confused:


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PostPosted: July 3rd, 2005, 11:20 am 
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Becausae the goodness of the elves helps drive him back but also the God of MIddle Earth favors the elves. Adn yeah I know I just suck at expalining things. :bones:

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PostPosted: July 7th, 2005, 2:05 pm 
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Elf Lady Alane wrote:
They etered with permition, right my Elf friends? Otherwise, they would have died, but Gandalf was a not mortal, I think that he would have entered any way, right??? :confused:


That is correct! :angel:
As Larael Greenleaf said the others from the Fellowship came to the Undying Lands with the grace of the Valar. And Gandalf originally came to Middle-earth from Valinor. He is Maia so it was natural for him to return to his home once his task was completed!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: July 7th, 2005, 2:53 pm 


Thank u my Elf friend!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 27th, 2005, 10:03 pm 
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Undomiel wrote:
When a being leaves for the Undying Lands, they must first have permission before they can enter. Valinor was taken forever out of the physical realm of Arda, and if anyone but those the Valar have deemed may come, they would just be sailing around the whole world, never to find it. In this way you can think of it as a kind of heaven, though mortals who journeyed there would still eventually die. Sauron or any other evil being would never have been able to get there.

This quote might help:

From Letter #325:
The 'immortals' who were permitted to leave Middle-earth and seek Aman -- the undying lands of Valinor and Eressëa, an island assigned to the Eldar -- set sail in ships specially made and hallowed for this voyage, and steered due West towards the ancient site of these lands. They only set out after sundown; but if any keen-eyed observer from that shore had watched one of these ships he might have seen that it never became hull-down but dwindled only by distance until it vanished in the twilight: it followed the straight road to the true West and not the bent road of the earth's surface. As it vanished it left the physical world. There was no return. The Elves who took this road and those 'mortals' who by special grace went with them, had abandoned the 'History of the world' and could play no further part in it.

There have been illustrations that give an idea of the Straight Road, John Howe's 'The Grey Havens' may be useful.

yeag wjat she siad

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PostPosted: October 28th, 2005, 7:37 pm 
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So basically Curunír, the elves were already citizens of the Undying Lands so they could enter just because of their heritage and ancestry. All others had to get a visa issued by the Valar and I've never heard of any terrorist-orcs slipping through the strict security at the port of the Grey Havens *grins*

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: November 1st, 2005, 5:47 pm 


all of you have a really good explanation Good Job :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: November 1st, 2005, 6:03 pm 
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Eä wrote:
All others had to get a visa issued by the Valar and I've never heard of any terrorist-orcs slipping through the strict security at the port of the Grey Havens *grins*



:roll: *laughs off laughing*

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 2nd, 2005, 11:47 am 
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Undomiel wrote:
When a being leaves for the Undying Lands, they must first have permission before they can enter. Valinor was taken forever out of the physical realm of Arda, and if anyone but those the Valar have deemed may come, they would just be sailing around the whole world, never to find it. In this way you can think of it as a kind of heaven, though mortals who journeyed there would still eventually die. Sauron or any other evil being would never have been able to get there.

This quote might help:

From Letter #325:
The 'immortals' who were permitted to leave Middle-earth and seek Aman -- the undying lands of Valinor and Eressëa, an island assigned to the Eldar -- set sail in ships specially made and hallowed for this voyage, and steered due West towards the ancient site of these lands. They only set out after sundown; but if any keen-eyed observer from that shore had watched one of these ships he might have seen that it never became hull-down but dwindled only by distance until it vanished in the twilight: it followed the straight road to the true West and not the bent road of the earth's surface. As it vanished it left the physical world. There was no return. The Elves who took this road and those 'mortals' who by special grace went with them, had abandoned the 'History of the world' and could play no further part in it.

There have been illustrations that give an idea of the Straight Road, John Howe's 'The Grey Havens' may be useful.


yeah what she said!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 2nd, 2005, 12:26 pm 
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the undying lands where defended by some defences including one which made it impossible to find by unautharised visitors.

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PostPosted: December 2nd, 2005, 10:11 pm 
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Eä wrote:
So basically Curunír, the elves were already citizens of the Undying Lands so they could enter just because of their heritage and ancestry. All others had to get a visa issued by the Valar and I've never heard of any terrorist-orcs slipping through the strict security at the port of the Grey Havens *grins*


hehe, that's funny...
thanks for explaining that, everyone, the explanations were great.
(Yes I know I did not ask the question I just wondered about the whole 'Undying Lands' thing too! :))

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