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Post subject: Ever tought about it? Posted: June 28th, 2005, 7:34 am |
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Joined: 08 June 2005 Posts: 7734 Location: Isengard
Gender: Male
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I know this might be stupid, but in tolkien`s world the elves are leaving for the undying lands from the grey havens and it just makes me wonder cause if they go there by ship.... why couldn´t Sauron follow them there only ships of his own....and always when some talks about it`s like there is no coming back as if it was a group suicide! just trying to kill my time...
_________________ Let him curse my name On these blood stained pages of misery Let him call me a tyrant so cruel Let him curse my name, but remember the truth!
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Post subject: Posted: June 28th, 2005, 9:55 am |
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Joined: 12 June 2005 Posts: 30 Location: Lórien
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When a being leaves for the Undying Lands, they must first have permission before they can enter. Valinor was taken forever out of the physical realm of Arda, and if anyone but those the Valar have deemed may come, they would just be sailing around the whole world, never to find it. In this way you can think of it as a kind of heaven, though mortals who journeyed there would still eventually die. Sauron or any other evil being would never have been able to get there.
This quote might help:
From Letter #325:
The 'immortals' who were permitted to leave Middle-earth and seek Aman -- the undying lands of Valinor and Eressëa, an island assigned to the Eldar -- set sail in ships specially made and hallowed for this voyage, and steered due West towards the ancient site of these lands. They only set out after sundown; but if any keen-eyed observer from that shore had watched one of these ships he might have seen that it never became hull-down but dwindled only by distance until it vanished in the twilight: it followed the straight road to the true West and not the bent road of the earth's surface. As it vanished it left the physical world. There was no return. The Elves who took this road and those 'mortals' who by special grace went with them, had abandoned the 'History of the world' and could play no further part in it.
There have been illustrations that give an idea of the Straight Road, John Howe's 'The Grey Havens' may be useful.
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Post subject: Posted: June 28th, 2005, 9:57 am |
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Joined: 08 June 2005 Posts: 7734 Location: Isengard
Gender: Male
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I thought that there had to be something like that.....
_________________ Let him curse my name On these blood stained pages of misery Let him call me a tyrant so cruel Let him curse my name, but remember the truth!
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Post subject: Posted: June 28th, 2005, 2:29 pm |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 13144 Location: Heaven: Rockin' with Severus Snape Country:
Gender: Female
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Bilbo, Frodo, Gandalf, and Gimli are not Elves but have been graced by the Valar so are aloud to enter the Undying Lands.
Thats just in ase you were wondering.......
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Post subject: Posted: June 29th, 2005, 2:57 pm |
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They etered with permition, right my Elf friends? Otherwise, they would have died, but Gandalf was a not mortal, I think that he would have entered any way, right???
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Post subject: Posted: July 3rd, 2005, 11:20 am |
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Joined: 05 June 2005 Posts: 982 Location: on a planet in the near visnity of Beetlejuse
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Becausae the goodness of the elves helps drive him back but also the God of MIddle Earth favors the elves. Adn yeah I know I just suck at expalining things.
_________________ In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea.
My other TARDIS is a police box.
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Post subject: Posted: July 7th, 2005, 2:05 pm |
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Eä |
Moderator |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 12592
Gender: Female
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Elf Lady Alane wrote: They etered with permition, right my Elf friends? Otherwise, they would have died, but Gandalf was a not mortal, I think that he would have entered any way, right???
That is correct!
As Larael Greenleaf said the others from the Fellowship came to the Undying Lands with the grace of the Valar. And Gandalf originally came to Middle-earth from Valinor. He is Maia so it was natural for him to return to his home once his task was completed!
_________________ >>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara
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Post subject: Posted: July 7th, 2005, 2:53 pm |
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Post subject: Posted: October 27th, 2005, 10:03 pm |
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Joined: 05 June 2005 Posts: 982 Location: on a planet in the near visnity of Beetlejuse
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Undomiel wrote: When a being leaves for the Undying Lands, they must first have permission before they can enter. Valinor was taken forever out of the physical realm of Arda, and if anyone but those the Valar have deemed may come, they would just be sailing around the whole world, never to find it. In this way you can think of it as a kind of heaven, though mortals who journeyed there would still eventually die. Sauron or any other evil being would never have been able to get there.
This quote might help:
From Letter #325: The 'immortals' who were permitted to leave Middle-earth and seek Aman -- the undying lands of Valinor and Eressëa, an island assigned to the Eldar -- set sail in ships specially made and hallowed for this voyage, and steered due West towards the ancient site of these lands. They only set out after sundown; but if any keen-eyed observer from that shore had watched one of these ships he might have seen that it never became hull-down but dwindled only by distance until it vanished in the twilight: it followed the straight road to the true West and not the bent road of the earth's surface. As it vanished it left the physical world. There was no return. The Elves who took this road and those 'mortals' who by special grace went with them, had abandoned the 'History of the world' and could play no further part in it.
There have been illustrations that give an idea of the Straight Road, John Howe's 'The Grey Havens' may be useful.
yeag wjat she siad
_________________ In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea.
My other TARDIS is a police box.
http://www.roleplayultimum.proboards100.com/index.cgi
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Post subject: Posted: October 28th, 2005, 7:37 pm |
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Eä |
Moderator |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 12592
Gender: Female
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So basically CurunÃr, the elves were already citizens of the Undying Lands so they could enter just because of their heritage and ancestry. All others had to get a visa issued by the Valar and I've never heard of any terrorist-orcs slipping through the strict security at the port of the Grey Havens *grins*
_________________ >>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara
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Post subject: Posted: November 1st, 2005, 5:47 pm |
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all of you have a really good explanation Good Job
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Post subject: Posted: November 1st, 2005, 6:03 pm |
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Joined: 09 July 2005 Posts: 9460 Location: in the temple of love
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Eä wrote: All others had to get a visa issued by the Valar and I've never heard of any terrorist-orcs slipping through the strict security at the port of the Grey Havens *grins*
*laughs off laughing*
_________________ <center>[font=Times New Roman]<img src="http://tinyurl.com/63ongu"><br><br>From sorrow & pain I find my strength ... the more pain I feel, the more I see /// July the 4th 2008, first day of my life...<br><br>I met Eru on September 5th 2006 ♥ (and April 15th 2008!)<br><br>Censorship Causes Blindness</center>[/font]
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Post subject: Posted: December 2nd, 2005, 11:47 am |
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Joined: 05 June 2005 Posts: 982 Location: on a planet in the near visnity of Beetlejuse
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Undomiel wrote: When a being leaves for the Undying Lands, they must first have permission before they can enter. Valinor was taken forever out of the physical realm of Arda, and if anyone but those the Valar have deemed may come, they would just be sailing around the whole world, never to find it. In this way you can think of it as a kind of heaven, though mortals who journeyed there would still eventually die. Sauron or any other evil being would never have been able to get there.
This quote might help:
From Letter #325: The 'immortals' who were permitted to leave Middle-earth and seek Aman -- the undying lands of Valinor and Eressëa, an island assigned to the Eldar -- set sail in ships specially made and hallowed for this voyage, and steered due West towards the ancient site of these lands. They only set out after sundown; but if any keen-eyed observer from that shore had watched one of these ships he might have seen that it never became hull-down but dwindled only by distance until it vanished in the twilight: it followed the straight road to the true West and not the bent road of the earth's surface. As it vanished it left the physical world. There was no return. The Elves who took this road and those 'mortals' who by special grace went with them, had abandoned the 'History of the world' and could play no further part in it.
There have been illustrations that give an idea of the Straight Road, John Howe's 'The Grey Havens' may be useful.
yeah what she said!
_________________ In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea.
My other TARDIS is a police box.
http://www.roleplayultimum.proboards100.com/index.cgi
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Post subject: Posted: December 2nd, 2005, 12:26 pm |
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Joined: 02 December 2005 Posts: 344 Location: britain
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the undying lands where defended by some defences including one which made it impossible to find by unautharised visitors.
_________________ proud to be a pipe smoker like JJRT
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Post subject: Posted: December 2nd, 2005, 10:11 pm |
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Joined: 01 November 2005 Posts: 4785 Location: Middle Earth
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Eä wrote: So basically CurunÃr, the elves were already citizens of the Undying Lands so they could enter just because of their heritage and ancestry. All others had to get a visa issued by the Valar and I've never heard of any terrorist-orcs slipping through the strict security at the port of the Grey Havens *grins*
hehe, that's funny...
thanks for explaining that, everyone, the explanations were great.
(Yes I know I did not ask the question I just wondered about the whole 'Undying Lands' thing too! )
_________________ <center> all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us
Thank you for five-plus wonderful years of obsession, friendship and fun
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