My parents and I were having a disscusion about "disobedient" characters in different books (namely HP and Lotr) and if they were justified in what they did. We couldn't agree and a few points regarding certain actions of Eowyn and Merry, so I thought I'd post those points here, and see if I can make them believe me! (Really, they should... I'm the one obsessed, right? )

1. Were Merry and Eowyn disobedient to Theoden when they rode off together to join the battle?

2. What was Eowyn's motivation to go to war? What was Merry's? (Can you please provide a quote to support?)

3. Did Eowyn desire glory from battle? Is there a quote that would indicate that?

1. Yes, but then Theoden wasn't being completely open minded about their motives. Also, he was trying to protect them.

2. I think Eowyn hated to sit around and have other people decide her fate, and she hates feeling helpless. She seems like she likes to be in control of her own destiny. I think she also wanted to prove that she was as passionate and strong and the men around her. Provide a quote? What is this, high school Literature? Just kidding, I'm just don't like having to think of one. When she says "those without swords can still die upon them" and the cage quote sounds like she doesn't like being helpless. Merry loves his friends and home more than anything and wants to protect them. Like when he says "I would get him in the worst sort of trouble, but I was always there to get him out again." He feels responsible for Pippin and he feels he already lost Frodo and Sam and Pippin's the only part of home that's left to him.

3. Yes and no. I think she had a very realistic idea of war, but she wanted to prove something to herself and to her uncle. (and perhaps... to Aragorn? )

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Sorry! I didn't mean it like that...

Thanks for your answers, your veiws are very similar to mine!

I know. Quotes are good way to support views, I probably would have provided one even if you hadn't asked me.

Glad I could help!

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Yes. They were. Theoden was filling the role of father for Eowyn and protecting her. As for Merry, I think that Theoden should have talked to Merry more before then, and they could've come to a conclusion with them talking it out together.



Sorry, i'm in a bit of a hurry, I won't be able to provide quotes now, but Eowyn and Merry both had something to prove, and that's why they wanted to go to battle. Also, Merry wanted to help Frodo in any way he could... and that was the only way he could see.



I don't think Eowyn's motivation was glory as much as it was trying to prove she wasn't afraid of anything... I also think she felt that she was living under a stereotype, and hated that and wanted to get rid of it. In the end, though, she found what she was really longing for all along.

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^Thanks! And please don't worry about the quotes. It's really not important at all!

(I know you said not to worry about the quotes, but I think it gives or meaning to what is written so I put some in.)

1. Yes, Merry had been given an order to stay at the camp. Eowyn had been given the order to govern the people.
"You shall abide here, and if you will, you shall serve the Lady Eowyn." Theoden to Merry. Book five, chapter three

2. Merry wanted to go to war because all his friends had.
That and he did not want to be parted from the king.
"But, my, lord," Merry stammered, "I offered you my sword. I do not want to be parted from you like this, Theoden King. And as all my friends have gone to battle, I should be ashamed to stay behind." Merry to Theoden book fiver chapter three
Eowyn went to battle seeking death.
"I looked for death in battle. But I have not died, and the battle still goes on." Eowyn to Faramir. book six chapter five

3. I think at first yes, she did desire renown. But as my above quote stated, something changed. I'm not quite sure what made her snapped, but I know something did.
"Shall I always be chosen?" she asked bitterly. "Shall I always be left behind when the Riders depart, to mind the house while they win renown, and find food and bed when they return?" Eowyn to Aragorn book five chapter two

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(Yes, I think so too. But I can also understand how soem people don't have the time or whatever, so whatever! If you can add quotes great, if not, that's great too!)

Thanks for your answers. Hmmm, why do you think Eowyn wanted to die?

Now this is pure speculation, but I think in the end she might have equated death in battle with honor.

"And she answered: 'All your words are but to say: you are a women, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honor[emphasis added] , you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men have need of it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-women. I can ride and wield a blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.'" Eowyn to Aragorn. Book five, Chapter two.

I am guessing that she felt trapped since she felt like she was always chosen to stay behind and watch over the people and the house while the men rode away. She felt the only way to escape was to get honor, and she felt the best way to do that was death in battle. Again, this is pure speculation. This is what I have gotten from what I have read.

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