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Aerlinn
Maia
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 5184
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 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:05 pm Post subject:
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Hmmm, I don't think that what Aragorn did could be considered suicide..(not going to copy people who said that already, but I agree with their arguments)
Could Luthien's or Arwen's death be considered as suicide though? (Luthien's first death)
They were Elves, and didn't die because they had reached their appointed time or whatnot, they died because they didn't want to live anymore. Technically, I'd say it was suicide.  |
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FRODOFAN
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Joined: 07 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject:
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I'm kind of surprised that this is even being debated.
The same for Lúthien and Arwen's death. Not wanting to live anymore and dying because of it isn't really suicide. If it was, you could say that anyone who died of heartache (where they didn't want to live anymore without their lover and were so sad that they died) comitted suicide as well.
If they didn't intentionally take their own lives, then it isn't suicide. |
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Guard of the Citadel
Dwarf
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:41 am Post subject:
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| Appendix A states: Aragorn says to Arwen: "Take counsel with yourself, beloved, and ask yourself whether you would indeed have me wait until I wither and fall from my high seat unmanned and witless. Nay, lady, I am the last of the Numenoreans and the last King of the Elder Days; and to me has been given not only a span thrice that of Men of Middle-Earth, but also the grace to go at my will, and give back the gift. Now, therefore, I will sleep........"Estel!, Estel!" she cried, and with that even as he took her hand and kissed it, he fell into sleep. Then a great beauty was revealed in him, so that all who after came there looked on him in wonder, for they saw that the grace of his youth, and the valour of his manhood, and the wisdom and majesty of his age were blended together. And long there he lay, an image of the splendour of the Kings of Men in glory undimmed before the breaking of the world. |
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Larael
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject:
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| ^ I think that pretty much ends this discussion. We've got a straight up quote that says it was not suicide. Sure you could interpret it that way, but I don't think that's something Tolkien would like to include for one of his more heroic characters. |
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Culúrien
Gondorian
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:08 am Post subject:
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Amen.
(Sorry, I don't mean that in a religious way; I mean that as, "Yes I agree, full stop." ) |
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maxx
Dwarf
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:13 pm Post subject:
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| Frodos-Guide wrote: | I think rather than calling it suicide, you could just say that Argorn felt that it was his time to go and join his decendants. The fact that he feels the approach of old age informs us that he felt as though his time on earth was over, and the fact that Arwen knew what it was he was to do simply tells us that her instinct told her that Aragorn was to join his decendants and leave Middle-Earth.
Take it literally. |
Err, you mean ancestors, right?
Joining his children by dieing would be weeird. |
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[ m e m ]
Gondorian
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 343
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject:
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| People Die. It is a part of living. |
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glorfindil3
Hobbit
Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:36 pm Post subject:
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| Aerandir wrote: | | Aragorn is a descendant of the Edain, the three houses of men who allied themselves with the Elves during the War against Morgoth, and who later became the Numenorians. Those kings always could tell when it was their 'time' and would let themselves die, accepting it, because it was also the time their sons were in the prime of life normally, too. So, I don't think it was really "suicide"...it's more of letting yourself die, instead of fighting it to live as long as possible. |
I agree completely |
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Manveru
Hobbit
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:30 pm Post subject:
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I would agree in saying it was not suicide. I think he was simply letting himself die instead of trying to die. There is a fine line there.
Think of this in a real-life situation. If someone was near death and could be saved by life support but refused it, is that suicide? Some people would say it is, but to me this is a parallel to Aragorn's choice. In both cases the person is not so much choosing to die as choosing to not fight to live. |
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