Rules      FAQ       Register        Login
It is currently November 13th, 2019, 6:32 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Please describe Elladan and Elrohir
PostPosted: February 29th, 2012, 5:52 am 
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
User avatar

Joined: 25 February 2012
Posts: 129
Country: Philippines (ph)
Gender: Female

Offline
I haven't read the book so i don't know what they look like or what they act like, i am very curious about them, please help thank you!

_________________
Image

Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please describe Elladan and Elrohir
PostPosted: February 29th, 2012, 6:18 am 
Elf
Elf
User avatar

Joined: 11 August 2008
Posts: 1052
Location: Mirkwood
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Gender: Female

Offline
In Return of the King they are described as: 'few could tell them apart: dark-haired, grey-eyed, and their faces elven-fair, clad alike in bright mail beneath cloaks of silver-grey'. It's not really stated anywhere but it's assumed that they are twins, especially as they are always referenced together. They also, being half elven had the choice of Mortality, but their fate is ultimately unknown.

Apparently, they appear in the films, but I've never been able to spot them. A lot of people believe that in the Hobbit Trailer, the elves on horseback who circle the dwarves at Rivendell are going to be Elladan and Elrohir as well. New Line made some pretty cool trading card images of them though here and here.

Oh and in nearly every bit of LotR fanfiction I've read they've been characterised as Elvish Versions of the Weasley twins

Hope that helps :)

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please describe Elladan and Elrohir
PostPosted: February 29th, 2012, 6:56 am 
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
User avatar

Joined: 25 February 2012
Posts: 129
Country: Philippines (ph)
Gender: Female

Offline
they were in the movie? i didn't noticed them too...So basically they are just extras in LOTR books?

_________________
Image

Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please describe Elladan and Elrohir
PostPosted: February 29th, 2012, 10:06 am 
Balrog
Balrog
User avatar

Joined: 30 December 2006
Posts: 3507
Location: Over the Edge of the Wild
Country: Rohan (xr)
Gender: Female

Offline
I always assumed the elves sitting on either side of Elrond at the Council were Elladan and Elrohir. I can't confirm it though, but that's the only place I can think of that they could've been seen.

_________________

Image
by Lembas


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Please describe Elladan and Elrohir
PostPosted: February 29th, 2012, 10:40 pm 
Gondorian
Gondorian
User avatar

Joined: 08 February 2010
Posts: 376

Offline
In a letter Tolkien noted that their names also refer to their status as half-elven.

Elladan 'Elf-man (Elf-Numenorean)' and Elrohir 'Elf-knight' -- rohir or rochir would appear to be 'horse-lord, knight' as in Rohirrim.


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please describe Elladan and Elrohir
PostPosted: March 1st, 2012, 1:15 am 
Rider of Rohan
Rider of Rohan
User avatar

Joined: 25 February 2012
Posts: 129
Country: Philippines (ph)
Gender: Female

Offline
so they are not pure elves? but they are Arwen's older brothers o.O

_________________
Image

Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please describe Elladan and Elrohir
PostPosted: March 1st, 2012, 3:31 am 
Istari
Istari
User avatar

Joined: 28 June 2011
Posts: 2177
Location: Shire
Country: Poland (pl)
Gender: Female

Offline
But Elrond is half-elf ;)

_________________
Image

Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please describe Elladan and Elrohir
PostPosted: March 1st, 2012, 5:02 pm 
Gondorian
Gondorian
User avatar

Joined: 08 February 2010
Posts: 376

Offline
In a letter Tolkien once noted...


'Arwen was not an elf, but one of the half-elven who abandoned her elvish rights.' JRRT, letter 343


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please describe Elladan and Elrohir
PostPosted: March 1st, 2012, 6:15 pm 
Istari
Istari
User avatar

Joined: 26 February 2012
Posts: 2086
Location: Arda
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Gender: Female

Offline
To be very very accurate, Arwen, Elladan and Elrohir are 3/16 mortal, 25/32 Elf, and 1/32 Maia.
If you want to split this down further, they are 40.625% Sindar, 18.75% Noldorin, 6.25% Vanyarin, 12.5% Telerin, 18.75% Mortal (i.e. Human) and 3.125% Maiar :)

_________________
Image

Nai andúnë elen
Siluva lyenna,
Nai írë mornië lanta
Órelya nauva sanda.


~Sírelindë~


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Please describe Elladan and Elrohir
PostPosted: March 1st, 2012, 6:25 pm 
Elf
Elf
User avatar

Joined: 11 August 2008
Posts: 1052
Location: Mirkwood
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Gender: Female

Offline
Yeah the half elf thing is complicated!

In a nutshell, because of mixed elf and Human lineage, Elrond and his brother Elros were named half-elven and given the choice of immortality. Elrond, chose immortality, whilst Elros chose to die. Elros' sons lived longer than other men, but we're all mortal. Elrond chose immortality, and therefore his children were given the same choice as he was. Obviously Arwen chose the 'mortal life' but no one knows what Elladan and Elrohir went for.

I think the whole half-elven thing gets confusing when you have people like Liv Tyler misinterpreting it and saying Arwen chose to ' give up her immortality', when really she chose to be Mortal to live with Aragorn. Does that make sense? :)

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please describe Elladan and Elrohir
PostPosted: March 1st, 2012, 7:25 pm 
Istari
Istari
User avatar

Joined: 26 February 2012
Posts: 2086
Location: Arda
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Gender: Female

Offline
I know! It was difficult to calculate :D

I think the whole Half-Elven thing just means a person who isn't 100% Elf but has either one full Elf and one mortal parent, or one Elf and one Half-Elven parent, or 2 Half-Elven parents who have both chosen to remain Elvish.
This would mean that Half-Elves should be at least 50% Elf.

It is not known whether children of *a mortal and a Half-Elven who chose to remain Elf, or 2 Half-Elven parents of which only one chose to remain Elvish, would be classified as Half-Elven as we don't have examples for these in the books.

This could explain why Aragorn isn't considered Half-Elven even though he did share part of Arwen's bloodline, he was decended from Elros who had chosen to be mortal.

The only 2 exceptions I could think of to this is Lúthien and her son Dior. Lúthien is 1/2 Elf and 1/2 Maia, yet she is considered full Eldar. Dior is 1/2 mortal, 1/4 Elf and 1/4 Maia, so he's less that 50% Elf, and yet he is considered Half-Elven.



*I don't know if Dior could be an example to illustrate this since his father, Beren, is fully mortal. But then again, Lúthien isn't considered Half-Elven...

_________________
Image

Nai andúnë elen
Siluva lyenna,
Nai írë mornië lanta
Órelya nauva sanda.


~Sírelindë~


Top
 Profile       WWW            
 
 Post subject: Re: Please describe Elladan and Elrohir
PostPosted: March 3rd, 2012, 2:40 pm 
Gondorian
Gondorian
User avatar

Joined: 08 February 2010
Posts: 376

Offline
Quote:
'They also, being half elven had the choice of Mortality, but their fate is ultimately unknown.'


I would only add that I think there is an indication, at least, that the Sons of Elrond chose mortality. No doubt it's a somewhat tangled web -- made more tangled by a 'famed letter' in which Tolkien actually says the fate of Elrond's sons is unknown, and that after Elrond sailed they delayed their choice and remain in Middle-earth for a while.


So Tolkien's letter appears to say that the time of Elrond's sailing is not so important as it appears to be, in my opinion, in the books. However if I read things right the pesky details here include...

A) at the time this letter was written, Tolkien had not yet finished the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen, and certainly hadn't published it. This tale contains commentary that implies the children of Elrond must choose to depart with Elrond, or if not to accept mortality. I realize the word 'with' might simply mean 'eventually with him' or similar, as opposed to sailing on the same day in the same boat -- but actually I think the discussion between Aragorn and Elrond very much implies that his specific sailing represents the final day of delay of choice.

2) at the time this letter was written, Tolkien had seemingly intended to not even mention whether or not the sons of Elrond sailed -- thus it would truly be 'uknown' (as the letter states), even if the time of Elrond's sailing was key; again as I think it seems to be in the books.


So can they truly delay their choice after Elrond sailed? or did Tolkien change his mind for the tale itself and choose to imply Elrond's sailing is important. Or was this part already written and the letter is, in a sense, a revision of the tale! Again, in any case their fate is still unknown in 1955 because it's unknow if they did, or did not, sail with Elrond. Tolkien's letter said they didn't -- Tolkien's story makes no mention of them.


And in the 1960s, when this letter is now years removed from the publication of the story, and possibly forgotten by JRRT as well, Tolkien adds at least two mentions (for the revised second edition of The Lord of the Rings) that Elladan and Elrond did not sail with Elrond.


I would never say we have 'too much' posthumously published material, but in this case one has to wonder if the letter, now made public to Tolkien's readership at large, has muddled something Tolkien intended to be less muddled.

:-D

In other words, considering what readers of the book alone are actually left with in the 1960s, quite aruably Elrond's departure appears to be a key point as to when his children must decide (and it's not like they hadn't already lived very long lives of course), later coupled with the 'revised' description that Elrond's sons, as with Arwen, did not actually sail with their father.


I bit sad for Elrond in ways, if so, but I tend to lean this way. And one could say that, again if so, at least his children escaped the deathlessness of the Elves.


Top
 Profile                  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please describe Elladan and Elrohir
PostPosted: January 30th, 2014, 12:46 am 
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
Dunedain Ranger of Arnor
User avatar

Joined: 02 January 2007
Posts: 3346
Location: The Lakeshore of Annúminas
Country: Gondor (xg)

Offline
Quote:
few could tell them apart: dark-haired, grey-eyed, and their faces elven-fair, clad alike in bright mail beneath cloaks of silver-grey
-Return of the King


Not sure if its stated anywhere that they are twins, but I for some reason have always assumed they were. They may have been in the PJ fanfics at the Council of Elrond sitting beside Elrond, and maybe the elf who greeted the Dwarf party was one, but that is beside the point.

Elthir wrote:
I would never say we have 'too much' posthumously published material, but in this case one has to wonder if the letter, now made public to Tolkien's readership at large, has muddled something Tolkien intended to be less muddled.


Yes, I agree! I keep most of HoME and Letters as references used while building the story, not the be-all/end all of discussion.

_________________
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Dunedain Ranger of the North
Annalist, Physician, & Historian
of The Black Company of the Dúnedain,
The Free Company of Arnor


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~


Top
 Profile                  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Boyz theme by Zarron Media 2003