Hravan wrote:
Please, please, I'm begging here on my knees, don't delete the name lists!
I use them so much and they were the reason I joined AU!
Even if you're putting embarrassingly bad translations everywhere? to me it's like knowing Chinese characters and being able to tell that although tattoos that say: "馬鹿外人" look cool, but actually say "Stupid foreigner". But, the incompetence displayed in the old name lists is more like the tattoo guy telling you that he'll put "serenity" on your arm, but copying "roast chicken with bamboo shoots" from a Chinese menu instead. After all, who cares? You can't read it, and many American's can't read it. Let's just hope you don't ever go develop an interest in what your tattoo actually says, eh? Or that you never go somewhere that people who can actually read Chinese characters will see it.
Hravan wrote:
The original lists are easier to understand, easier to pronounce (seriously, that IPA stuff just makes me want to smash my laptop whenever I see it, it's so inaccessible),
Please, I'm begging you, let's work on a way to make this more accessible, instead of leaving the old material up! Also, since you don't understand the IPA, (and say this to dramatic effect) how can you tell whether or not the new lists have harder or easier to pronounce names in them?
From my point of view, they should be much easier. Most of the names are 1, 2 or 3 syllables long, and there are no 6 syllable names. There aren't random sounds that don't exist in Quenya smashed into Quenya names, and I very clearly marked which languages the names are in, so they names are much more consistent in their language-column.
Also, instead of just saying "I HATE IT" how about helping me come up with a more accessible system? This is something that I'm asking for your help on.
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easier to navigate
So how can we make the new material easier to navigate?
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and the meanings behind the names are the more usual ones rather than the strange ones in the new list.
LOL. That's just because I was more honest about what the Elvish versions of the names actually mean.
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I suppose the other reason I prefer the old name lists above the new ones is because I don't like being told that I can't do something.
So copy the old lists and save them on your computer, if they are so precious to you.
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If I want to use the names from the old lists (and I've always been fully aware they're not accurate as I'm not an idiot and have read the info at the top of the page and I'm sure most people who use the list are capable of reading and have understood that too) then I will darn well will use them.
I can't stop you. But, most people skip over the the block paragraph at the top and go straight to their names, and so have no idea how bad it is. You won't believe how many people I've had to explain to, "Go read the fine print! It basically says right there, 'these namelists are garbage, especially if you want truthful translations'." So many people I've found using the names from here had no idea that the words were haphazardly changed because the writer didn't think Elvish was Elvish enough.
Then the problem is compounded because they've been copied and pasted onto so many other websites, without the warning label, so even if people read warnings that come in block paragraphs, they still won't get the information.
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But there are people who use the name lists who don't care if they're accurate or not.
They do exist. You are a fine example of one. Many, however, would prefer good translations that actually mean something. I am an example of one such person.
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And some of those people started questioning when they got taken down last time.
So, put up a link that says, "the new and improved name lists are here!" with links. Problem solved.
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It's obvious that those name lists aren't accurate
If you have any background knowledge of Tolkien's languages, yes. Otherwise, it's pretty easy to sucker people into taking names that actually mean "daughter of a goose waterfall".
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(again, everybody who uses them are capable of reading and it states quite clearly that the names aren't accurate)
And again, most people don't read the warning labels.
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but they do draw a lot of people to AU so they should stay up for that reason.
How about something that draws a lot of people to A-U that isn't total crap?
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I don't see what the big deal is.
Obviously, you don't care about Tolkien's life work. Some people do.
You know what? When I started working on this, I was told many times by people that they were glad to see the old material go. That they hated it, and hated having to tell people that an otherwise good website had to be avoided. I don't think you guys realize how infamous this place is for Sindarish. It's so bad that people will automatically assume that any website aimed at non-Elvish-scholars will be just as bad. What I'm trying to do is repair your bad image and make excellent translations available to a wider group of people.
Now I realize that most of you probably don't care that you're making people warn others away from your website, and making people put it on their blacklists. I realize that you've grown comfortable with the old material. I realize that what I'm asking you to give up is something you're quite fond of. It's like trying to explain to a kid that they probably should start using a new blanket, because the old one is too small, full of holes, and something fuzzy and green is starting to grow on a corner. It's an adjustment. I'm trying to make it easier, but you guys keep screaming and punching me whenever I try to even mend or wash the blanket.
You know, if the primary focus of the website isn't Elvish, and I'm the only one willing to put any work into maintaining it, why have an Elvish section at all?
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Or even putting something like "These names are not accurate. For an accurate translation please see this list [link]" at the top of the page.
How about doing that in big, bold letters. And in a bright color so even a blind gramma could see it. or better yet, have a warning pop up that says, "Do you want accurate names? If so, go [here]. If not, click [continue]."
To sum up: Let's not keep bad material just because it's easier to read; let's make the good material easy to read!
I'm not working on those, it's the new ones I'll be looking at. But the last time the old ones were taken down, people asked where they'd gone, because they find them easier to understand than the new ones.
Since you are a big fan of the name lists, can you take a look at the new one and see if it would work just as well for future reference? From what I gather, it should be just as helpful (esp once there's easier pronunciation guides) and it'd be nice to know if it can replace the other two.
