Well, if we're going for actual physical wounds, Fingolfin did the most harm. I was saying that Beren did a lot of damage when he raised the morale of the Elves and the Edain by stealing the Silmaril. Though when I think about it like that, it was probably less than Earendil did indirectly.

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Although by Beren stealing the Silmaril, he created a terrible war between the Dwarves (of Nogrod if I'm not mistaken) and the Elves of Doriath ...

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No, he didn't. That was caused by Elu Thingol choosing to have it set in the Nauglamír that Hurín brought back from Nargothrond in later years. Beren simply brought it to Doriath.

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What if he hadn't ... ?

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...actually, forgive me. Beren took the Silmaril from Morgoth--Carcharoth brought it to Doriath. Mablung took it from the Red Maw's corpse and put it in Beren's hand, and then Beren handed it to Thingol before he died, if I remember right (it's been a few weeks since I read the story).

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Ah I see ... ok thanks

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So we can all blame Carcharoth for the destruction of Doriath.

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Lol yeah! I guess we can hehe

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Thats a bit harsh lol. To be fair, Carcharoth was having his insides burned by th epower of th esilmaril lol. That will drive ya barmy ya know what IM saying?

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "

That's his problem. He bit off Beren's hand to get the Silmaril--he has to deal with the consequences. I have no sympathy for him.

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nah, I can find any sypmathy for him either. I mean he was one of Morgoth's powerful servants.

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[!+~^$#&:;]

Im not playing th eDevils advocate here lol, but didnt Morgoth keep Charcaroth REALLY hungry? If so then hes bound to go for whatever food he can get lol. Ya see wha i mean?

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "

Yeah, he did keep Carcharoth hungry, but it says in The Silmarillion that he (Carcharoth) hungered for the Silmaril, not necessarily for Beren. He, like all others (besides Beren and Luthien) desired the Great Jewel, and he paid for it. I still have no sympathy for him.

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Who did the most against Morgoth?

Earendil, he cuased his downfall.

If you extended the subject to include Elves you may include Feanor becuase if he had not led the Noldor over to Beleriand, then Morgoth would have quickly taken Beleriand becuase he had Doriath surrounded.
Other than that Feanor, his sons, and the oath, usually only aided Morgoth from that moment on.

Fine then Aerandir, I will not attempt to make u sympathise with Cgarcaroth lol. but anyway. Tuor = super underestimated I think. BUt thats for another day....

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "

Lol. It looks as though you typed that post really fast.

Anyways, Tuor is my favorite human after Beren, even though he didn't do as much as others (besides saving the remnant of Gondolin, and being the father of Earendil).

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