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PostPosted: February 27th, 2007, 1:28 pm 
Istari
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OK i think that frodo suceeded I think. First, he held out against the rings influence for so long so thats a personal triumph. second, the goal of the fellowship was to destroy the ring by any means necessary. Even Gandalf,a Maia, said that he thought gollum would have a part to play ere the end and that may have been erus way of destroying the ring , as I suppose that he would have known that Frodo would not have it himself, so he put all the right people in the way to help him.

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PostPosted: February 27th, 2007, 1:37 pm 
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Frodo himself failed. He did far better than anyone else would have, but it was because of Gollum that the Ring was destroyed. He himself no longer had the will to destroy it--he had finally yielded to temptation.

But of course, that's just my opinion.

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PostPosted: February 27th, 2007, 4:53 pm 
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Not just your opinion but Tolkien's too as you can see by the quote. Perhaps people are so reluctant to admit that he failed becuase of all he went through...


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PostPosted: February 28th, 2007, 2:10 am 
Vala
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Right. Well, I didn't look at the quote, so I didn't realize that Tolkien shared my opinion. Thanks, LoA.

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PostPosted: April 5th, 2007, 7:39 am 
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But did he really fail? If he would have got away from mount doom, only then would he have failed, the ring was destroyed, that was his task, how it happened at the final moments makes no difference in my opinion.

For example, in a football, you win due to an own goal, it still counts as a win right?

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PostPosted: April 5th, 2007, 9:15 am 
Vala
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Yes, he failed. It wasn't Frodo that destroyed the Ring. He brought it that far, but it was through Gollum's misstep that the Ring was destroyed, not through any effort of Frodo.

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PostPosted: April 29th, 2007, 7:13 am 
Istari
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but what if Frodo was fated to not destroy it, and that gollum was meant ot be the one who would destroy it.?That would mean he suceeded for what he was meant to do, and that gollum sorta suceeded im what he did.
its a possibilty mebbe

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "


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PostPosted: April 29th, 2007, 7:13 am 
Istari
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but what if Frodo was fated to not destroy it, and that gollum was meant ot be the one who would destroy it.?That would mean he suceeded for what he was meant to do, and that gollum sorta suceeded im what he did.
its a possibilty mebbe
( sorry for double posting.it wont let me delete the first message)

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "


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PostPosted: April 29th, 2007, 7:50 am 
Vala
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Lol--that's when you delete the second message. :P

Well, if Frodo was fated not to destroy the Ring, then that kind of makes this entire discussion invalid, because this really is about whether he succeeded in the quest appointed to him by Elrond.

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PostPosted: May 4th, 2007, 2:26 am 
Rider of Rohan
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Quote:
Yes, he failed. It wasn't Frodo that destroyed the Ring. He brought it that far, but it was through Gollum's misstep that the Ring was destroyed, not through any effort of Frodo.


I totally agree with what you said there Aerandir. Thanks to Gollum's intervention the Ring got destroyed. Frodo, even though he arrived so far, he was about to destroy the whole quest by claiming the ring for his own.

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Last edited by Eärendil The Mariner on May 4th, 2007, 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: May 4th, 2007, 2:29 am 
Rider of Rohan
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Quote:
For example, in a football, you win due to an own goal, it still counts as a win right?


But the players of the winning team failed to score for themselves - they had to rely on the other team for their own victory.

(Sorry for the double post but I had to do this to avoid confusion with the previous post - thanks)

Thanks

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PostPosted: May 4th, 2007, 3:22 pm 
Istari
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And I get criticised for double posting :lol:
My point still stands. It may make this discussion invalid but is still a possible explanation as to whetehr Frodo suceeded or failed.
and BTW earendil, there is an edit button, y not just include it all as one message?

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "


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PostPosted: May 4th, 2007, 3:53 pm 
Rider of Rohan
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Quote:
BTW earendil, there is an edit button, y not just include it all as one message?


Yep, I knew about that thanks. Preferred to do it that way! :) heh

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PostPosted: August 26th, 2007, 4:43 pm 
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Going back the quote lord of all posted on the first page - I don't know if I quite like the idea of Eru Iluvatar "pushing" Gollum in. I consider Eru to be a God-like figure in the books. The idea of whether Gollum was so blinded by his happiness in finally gaining the Ring is a much better one to me than the idea of Eru taking Fate into his own hands and pushing Gollum himself.

All in all, I think Frodo did suceed. He took the Ring all the way to Mordor and if you think on it, that's really all he promised to do, right? He said in Rivendell that he would "take the Ring to Mordor" not destroy the Ring. That just seemed to be the most natural thing to do once he got there.

By then the Ring had started to get at him by means of his mind and heart so that it was nearly impossible for him to let go of the Ring. Gollum had to come along and take it, there was no other way. Besides it made a good bit irony to have Gollum finally get the Ring but then die upon their reunion.


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PostPosted: September 8th, 2007, 6:31 am 
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well that's a good and smart question.I can see your point...since it was gollum who fell into the volcano with the THE ONE RING and Frodo had almost given up the very last moment...who was the one who really did the job???


well in my opinion it was gollum who saved the whole situation...frodo would have destroyed everything if he claimed the ring.Well sometimes even the unexpected can save the situation

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PostPosted: September 19th, 2007, 12:18 pm 
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Suceeded!

Although the strength of the ring grew too much for him in the end, and he succumed to the corruption, he ulitimatley triumphed.

When his finger was bitten off, Frodo wrestled Gollum for the ring, and through his courage, he pushed Gollum off into the firey chasms.

He definitley suceeded !

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