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Post subject:  Posted: November 3rd, 2008, 12:01 am |
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Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 15181
Location: Minas Morgul
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^That's fine, Aliana. You're welcome to do names if you'd like.
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Post subject: Posted: November 3rd, 2008, 10:49 am |
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Eä |
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Kitoky wrote: The Current Results:
<b>Bill the Pony</b>
Aerlinn - 3
Altariel Frodo - 3
<i>Calloniel PD - 14</i> FINAL
Fencing Maiden - 4
Larael - 4
Nurrantiel Mashiara - 2
Shadowcat - 1
TheThain - 4
Will - 1
<b>Defender of the Professor</b>
<i>Aerandir - 16</i> FINAL
Darrell - 8
Hanasian - 3
Johnny's Fan - 5
Nienna of Rohan - 1
Witch King of Angmar - 2
<b>Rivendell</b>
Aliana Fae - 2
ErulisseEnethNin - 5
<i>Elven Archer - 7</i>
<i>Johnny's Fan - 10</i>
Larael - 2
Raven Sparrow - 1
Revenge - 0
Shadowcat - 4
<b>Merry & Pippin</b>
<i>Aerlinn - 6</i>
Balathor - 3
<i>Fencing Maiden - 5</i>
<i>Johnny's Fan - 4
keyodie - 4</i>
Mephiston, Lord of Death - 1
<i>MontanaBohemian - 7</i>
Nauriel Rochnur - 0
Tar-Dis - 2
timtimtimtim - 5
TheThain - 0
<b>Haradrim</b>
<i>Aramel Elyanwe - 9
Calloniel PD - 9</i>
Meldawen - 5
Phoenix - 2
<i>Tar-Dis - 7
timtimtimtim - 8</i>
<b>Lothlorien</b>
Aliana Fae - 15
ForeverFrodo - 2
<i>Johnny's Fan - 14</i>
keyodie - 3
Nurrantiel Mashiara - 1
pirateoftherings - 3
smeagollum - 1
<b>Numenorian</b>
Altariel Frodo - 3
Calloniel PD - 4
Fencing Maiden - 4
<i>Gwenneth - 5</i>
Johnny's Fan - 4
<i>Larael - 8</i>
Meldawen - 4
Nurrantiel Mashiara - 1
pirateoftherings - 2
smeagollum - 2
<b>Istari</b>
Altariel Frodo - 4
Calloniel PD - 3
ForeverFrodo - 0
<i>Larael - 23</i> FINAL
Phoenix - 2
Sidawethiel - 7
Valera Elenhathel - 0
<b>Nazgul</b>
Elenriel of Mirkwood - 4
Calloniel PD - 4
Drew's Destiny - 2
Meldawen - 4
MontanaBohemian - 5
Pandora - 8
<i>Tar-Dis - 12</i> FINAL?
<b>For the Shire</b>
<i>Aerandir - 10
Altariel Frodo - 10</i>
Dark, Queen of Angmar - 3
Johnny's Fan - 5
Mrs. Haldir - 3
Telpeath - 3
<b>Hall of Fire</b>
Aerlinn - 5
<i>Lady Dark Moon - 13</i> FINAL
Larael - 5
Meldawen - 6
Mephiston, Lord of Death - 3
The Nightingale - 1
Ones italicized are those who have either won or might be involved in a tie-break round.
The issue I see is that you are taking the ones that have 7 - 6 results to go for a tie-break because they're so close, but then what about those results that are 7 - 6 - 5? Aren't they close? If we're going to do "close-count" tie-breaks then we should include those that range "close". That means if the top person is 20 and the next in running is 18, they should be included in a tie-break round too.
If we're going to do 'close-count' tie-break then we should stretch the range to at least 3 votes. That means the top results must be within 3 votes of each other. Like indicated in the category the Merry & Pippin award.
Also, what do you guys plan to do with the results of categories where that member has already won 4 awards?
Say when this nomination was started, the member had already won three awards in previous rounds. They were nominated for four categories and won in two of them. They're only allowed one more award. Do they get to choose which award they want to take? Etc.
Alright, we have a situation here. Larael has already won four awards during the past two rounds and she is sure of at least one more award this round. I just checked it now to see if anyone would reach their fourth award this round. It looks like Larael wasn't even eligble to be nominated this round. So what do we do about it? Should we withdraw her from the polls and do a second poll with the two people next in line? I think at least she should have some kind of Honourable Mention or...
Which brings me to the next question. Who and how many should compete in a second poll. I think a second poll should be held with the top two people in a category, in case only one vote seperates number one and two. Simply because this is such a close margin.. I wouldn't include more than two people in the second poll since there can only be one winner anyway.  Unless if two or more people tied with the majority votes then they should all be included in a second poll.
Like this:
A - 5
B - 3
C - 5
D - 5
E - 4
^A, C and D wil appear in a second poll because they all got the same amount of majority votes.
This will mean that only the Merry & Pippin, Haradrim, Lothlorian and For the Shire categories should have a second poll.
The Rivendell, Numenorean and Nazgûl categories should not have a second poll because the margin between no. 1 and 2 is more than one vote.
For future rounds. Yes, I think if someone has already won 2 or 3 awards in previously rounds and is about to get onto more than the four 'allowed' awards in total, he/she should be offered the choice as to which award(s) he/she would have as the final. Okay, I only say this because I'm sure I read about this somewhere and I don't want to introduce new rules and guidelines if there is already existing ones! 
Well, did I cover everything here? This is just my opinion, feel free to come up with other ideas. Isn't the general problem here that we didn't have those issues in the previous rounds. The forum was smaller back then and I think only one or two people did the MA's but they are not around so we can ask them? We simply don't have the guidelines for what we do when something 'unexpected' happens, so we just kind of need to come up with something as we go along. But hopefully we should be able to make a set of fair guidelines out of it for future MA's. _________________ >>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara
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Post subject: Posted: November 3rd, 2008, 12:01 pm |
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Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 15181
Location: Minas Morgul
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I'll put up the polls you suggested, Ea.
But I honestly don't find it fair. I honestly don't even think that the tie-breaks between one difference vote should even take place, because people will argue that a 2 vote difference would be close too.
This is only going to happen <i>this</i> round because it's just simply.... too arguable. I don't want it happening again.
EDIT to ADD: My suggestion is to disregard the categories Larael was nominated for. She can get a honorable mention, she should've been put in the Member Awards Hall of Fame and she shouldn't have ever been nominated. This 4-award per member limit can be changed in the future but not at this point in time. Most of the categories that Larael won, she won in previous rounds. So it's not true loss, is my opinion.
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Post subject: Posted: November 3rd, 2008, 12:33 pm |
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Joined: 04 February 2006
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My opinion may be coming a little late at this point, but I think only true ties should be revoted. If more people voted for one person, even if it was only one more vote, well, they won. Because they got the most votes.
_________________ going on a journey through my old claims
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Post subject: Posted: November 3rd, 2008, 1:07 pm |
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Joined: 07 September 2005
Posts: 2685
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I agree with Nurr on this. And like I said before, I don't think there will be nearly as many voters as there were the first time around, it will just be a big hassle for everyone to have to revote for close-but-no-cigar "ties".
I haven't started the awards yet, but I have an idea for what I'm putting on them so I can start them as soon as I get a final list.
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Post subject: Posted: November 3rd, 2008, 2:18 pm |
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Well it is hard to say exactly what constitutes a second poll vote wise, whether votes 2-3 points below the highest should be included or not.
But I believe if a vote is 56 and then the next is 55 and then the nearest to them is 15, then that should be re-voted because it is so very close.
That's what has always been done in those situations I believe anyway. I don't even think re-voting will be a problem, as in the past any polls that have been re-done, have been just as successful as the original.
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Post subject: Posted: November 3rd, 2008, 4:51 pm |
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Location: Minas Morgul
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^But what if the nearest one to them is 54 or 53? Should they be included in the vote? Yes.
It's either for all or nothing. I don't like the fact that we're taking some 'close ties' because it's all perspective.
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Post subject: Posted: November 3rd, 2008, 5:12 pm |
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Eä |
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Kitoky wrote: I'll put up the polls you suggested, Ea.
But I honestly don't find it fair. I honestly don't even think that the tie-breaks between one difference vote should even take place, because people will argue that a 2 vote difference would be close too.
This is only going to happen <i>this</i> round because it's just simply.... too arguable. I don't want it happening again.
You shouldn't make the polls for me, Kit, we need to agree.
I don't think you were all fair in your post. I hope people are not taking it like I'm sneaking in a coup d'êtat and taking over the MA's. Like I said in my previous post I believe the problem is that we don't have any guidelines so we have no procedure for dealing with this situation.
The MA's have previouly been run by the mods - and even just one or two people. The members have offered to help out this time but we were never a part of the original discussions on how the MA's should be carried out.
I agree with you that having no set rules on this procedure is not completely fair, but I still think the criterias for making it to a second poll are up for discussion. I can see it from both points of view. All are fair suggestions but we need to decide whether this should be a matter of principle for future MA. Or whether you simply take a decision and put up the polls the way you find best this time. Taking the lead is one of the duties and privileges of being a mod and it might be needed here. I just didn't like the last part of your post. I agree with you that it could have been more elegantly done... I'm afraid it's too late now. But we should at least work towards a solution now. _________________ >>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara
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Post subject: Posted: November 3rd, 2008, 5:57 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 2156
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Woah, guys. 
In the end, this is Kit's decision, and I think it should be made to her liking. I honestly don't care whether we do just the ties, or the rounds which are so close. Though I do not think that there would be a huge our cry if we did put, like, people with 56 and 55 votes only (excluding the 54), I can see why it might not be considered fair. 
So, Kit, make the call. But do what you feel is best. And, I think I speak for all members when I say that we'll respect whatever you do.
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Post subject: Posted: November 3rd, 2008, 6:38 pm |
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Location: Minas Morgul
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I've already stated that we've always had true ties to go onto the tie-break round.
We've never done 50-49 ties.
What I want to ask right now is what do the member awards mean? Is it an honor or a competition?
If it's simply honor, then my perspective is that the clear-cut winner gets the award, no matter how by how many votes. There's always next year. And the year after, and the year after that. If it's about competition, then my perspective is re-voting rounds, round after round. It's an ongoing cycle.
Now if we really want to do this whole 50-49 vote type thing. How about we agree on some sort of limit on the difference from the leading vote?
- 50
- 49
- 47
Should the top few be within two votes of the lead count? 49 would be one vote from 50, but 47 would be three. 47 wouldn't go onto the tie-break round.
Should it be three votes? Four votes? <i>One</i> vote?
Or should we cut it off. The person with the most votes, regardless of how much more, get the award?
It's MY view that we should stick to the old method. Tie-break round only occur at true tie-breaks. Period.
@TheThain: Thanks for the vote of confident, sweetie. But Ea's right, it's <i>Member Awards</i>, we should consider what you guys think not just me.
@MA Organizers: Is it okay if I unsticky/delete the "Round 8 Member Awards Nominations" that are around?
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Post subject: Posted: November 4th, 2008, 6:40 am |
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I've always found the MA a very curious thing. Looking out people and tell them 'we love you guys extra much' - but yeah, I've been called socialist before! I know I might have introduced the 'competition' vocabulary but it was of lack of a better word. My idea of the MA is that being nominated is an honour, more than it's a competition, and the polls need not cause a huge discussion. I like the idea of nominees recieving an 'award' too because in my opinion it's really not about winning, but celebrating the many members of AU *coughsocialistcough*.
Let's go with only true ties gets a second poll. I don't have a passionate opinion about it as long as we do the same in future rounds, that's fairness to me.
Only objection to unstickying the nomination threads is if we should make a last post to announce the final polls and the deadline for voting. Can you leave them for just a couple more days? _________________ >>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
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Post subject: Posted: November 4th, 2008, 2:11 pm |
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Location: Minas Morgul
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Anyone else have specific thoughts on this?
I know a few have already posted about cutting off and only sending true ties onto the tie-break.
In a matter of future efficiency, true-ties will work better.
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Post subject: Posted: November 4th, 2008, 3:02 pm |
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Kitoky wrote:
What I want to ask right now is what do the member awards mean? Is it an honor or a competition?
I think this really is the heart, and the reason I was feeling uncomfortable with the close revotes. The member awards are honors given to recognize the wonderful people of AU. They are fun, lighthearted, and shouldn't be a huge huge thing. I think it is an honor if you win, no matter by how much, and an honor to be nominated and recognized. Competitions merely create bad feelings, and, while we are a wonderful community, I just don't see the need. _________________ going on a journey through my old claims
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Post subject: Posted: November 4th, 2008, 3:41 pm |
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Joined: 07 September 2005
Posts: 2685
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To clarify, what are we doing about the awards Larael was nominated for[and won]?
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Post subject: Posted: November 4th, 2008, 4:03 pm |
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Post subject: Posted: November 4th, 2008, 5:47 pm |
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Eä |
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Johnny's Fan wrote: Ah, it seems I was mistaken then. I just thought I once was placed into a second poll with someone who was one point lower then me and everyone else was 5+ points lower, but it was still re-done. So that could be why I thought that was the way it was usually done.
I think I remember something about it too, which trigged my memory, but since the old voting threads have been deleted, we'll never find out for sure.
So, as I stated in my previous post, I'm fine with only true ties going to a second poll. [I'm being pretty redundant, I know... but I'm trying to avoid confusion. ] _________________ >>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<
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