I was wondering what our Holmesian members think of 'Elementary.' It's the new, American version of 'Sherlock,' really, updating Holmes and putting him in America to boot. Holmes is played by Johnny Lee Miller, and Dr. 'Joan' Watson is played Lucy Liu. Apparently, Holmes comes to the States via rehab because of an alcoholic breakdown. The series starts as he's leaving rehab under the supervision of Dr. Watson. They settle in Manhattan, and of course start solving mysteries.

The interesting thing is that the set-up reminds me a whole lot of a movie called 'They Might Be Giants,' where Watson was also a woman and 'Holmes' was a very smart, delusional person who found an alternate reality in being Sherlock Holmes. Watson was his psychiatrist. The movie was charming, but I don't have high hopes for this series, mostly just from looking at the average quality of American television and from not liking the latest Guy Richie Holmes movies. Also because frankly it's Americans trying to do quintessentially British character, which I think almost never works out as well as when Brits do it. Still, the preview is fairly engaging and smart, and I did think 'Sherlock' was sort of a bad idea, too, at some point.

If anyone's interested the preview is here: http://www.cbs.com/shows/elementary/vid ... ll-preview

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To be honest, my first introductions to Sherlock Holmes were the Guy Ritchie movies and the BBC series, and I only started reading the stories afterwards. I really like Benedict Cumberbatches Sherlock, so I might be a bit prejudiced

I read about 'Elementary' some time ago, and really didn't like the idea. It's one thing to put a Victorian character in the 21st century, but making his companion female and bringing them both to the USA was just a tad too much for my liking. It was also a bit too soon after the modern British adaptation, so it looked like they were just trying to join in the succes from the BBC.

However, the trailer actually looked okay, and I will absolutely watch a few episodes, even if just to see what they've done with the stories.

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^ Same here. I saw the Guy Ritchie movies first, then read the books. I'm looking forward to watching it, but it does seem a bit... different.

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"Loyalty, honor, a willing heart... I can ask no more than that."
Married Kili 12/27/12

I grew up reading the stories with the original illustrations, and have yet to find an adaptation that fully fits my idea of "Sherlock Holmes." The old TV series (Brett, Howard) did a good job with the intellectual-but-still-friendly holmes, RDJ did a great reminder of the athleticism and theatrics, and Cumberbatch has done an excellent modern version plus seeing the crazy smart side. I'm perfectly willing to watch Elementary and see how they adapt it.

Haha, this almost exactly explains my feelings as well. US TV can just be really disappointing in general, let alone the fact that they're adapting a British character (and one of my favorites). It's comprable (in my eyes) to us trying to do a modern day Robin Hood. Could go either way. I did like the Guy Ritchie movies, but I find them more -sensationalized? (probably due to them being movies) than I'd like. And when I heard about Sherlock for the first time as a modern day Holmes I was just like "NOOOOOOO!" then thought about it, read the premise of it, watched it, and loved it.

All in all, we'll see.

Re: Watson as a woman. (Not directed at you, Lhun, it just reminds of a subject on which I like to rant! ) As a Tumblr user, I've seen piles upon piles of images of fem!Sherlock cosplayers, genderswapped ideas, and (of course) complaints over the lack of women in media and so on (not always related to Sherlock, but still applicable). And yet, as soon as it was revealed that Watson would be a woman, everyone got up in arms over it. Why does everyone have such an issue with it? Is it because it might tarnish your precious JohnLock fanfiction? Is it because you aren't getting to be "Joan"? Why the heck does everyone hate her already? I swear, in the span of one day I saw posts criticizing the decision and posts praising a photo of fem!Lock. It makes me want to tear out my hair sometimes.

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going on a journey through my old claims

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*

I was introduced to the BBC Sherlock serie by my sister. After seeing the first Holmes movie by Guy Ritchie and reading only one Holmes novel, I had been introduced to story and I was actually very interested in the modern adaption, but I had no expectations whatsoever. In the end I became to love the series and now I can say that I am absolutely addicted to them. So upon hearing about this American version of Sherlock, I disliked the idea of it. The creators of the BBC show took the risk of making the modern version of Sherlock which could have failed all the same. But now it has proved to be such a success, I just can't stand that the serie has literally been copied in an American version, to benefit from the BBC's success and the Sherlock hype.



I totally agree, JF! It somehow feels not right that they are not loyal to the characters by changing John's gender. The thing I love about both the Holmes movies and the BBC series is the special friendship between Sherlock and John. By turning John into Joan Watson, this friendship and its nature of course changes into something else. It's just not right.

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O children, lift up your voice, lift up your voice,
Children, rejoice, rejoice..



It doesn't matter you don't believe in God, He believes in you.

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*

Thank you thank you thank you. It makes me really sad to see people so angry about the fact that they switched the genders. So what? Can't a woman be just as good at being a doctor, or a friend and companion, as a man? Yes. Of course she can. It's like everyone's main objection is that "they'll be in love and the whole thing will be different," but what evidence is there that this will be the case? None. None whatsoever. Except for the track record of bad American shows with this plotline, but that's essentially a different argument...

Which isn't saying that I think this show is a good idea, but I'm so tired of people only complaining because "Watson is a woman and that's wrong." Come on, it's the 21st century, we should be past all this by now.

Personally, the complaints I have are that a) we already have the BBC Sherlock, so there's really no need for another similar show, and b) America ruins BBC shows (genderswapping or otherwise). I also think the timing of announcing this show was way off--if they'd waited another few years, after the hype surrounding the BBC show had faded, it might have been okay, but it was so clearly trying to imitate the success of the BBC show and it seemed so shallow.

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- married fingon fingolfinion 6/4/13 -
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Good point Nurr. One of things I liked least about Doyle's original stories was his lack of female characters. Ofcourse you have to consider the time period the stories were written in, where women weren't seen as that important anyway, but I'd still liked to see a more equal distribution of intelligence and courage across genders.

I like the idea of Watson being a woman on itself, I'm just afraid that woman Watson in combination with male Holmes will lead to situations comparable to 'Bones' and 'Castle'. They also feature a man and woman working together on a seemingly friendly basis, but there are always comments and suggestions, so it's actually not a platonic friendship. Do what you want with the story, but keep your hands of the friendship between Holmes and Watson

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*

What I am annoyed with is exactly that, though. No one that I've seen is mad that Watson is a woman "because men and women think differently and it will change the fundamental friendship they are built on" because all you have to do is look up fem!Lock and see people perfectly happy with one, the other, or both being female. Yet they dislike this.

I have no problem with people not liking that they could become a couple on the show, because that's a reasonable concern. We're dealing with US television which, let's be honest, is more concerned about ratings than quality tv. It's why we got rid of Firefly only to have Glee and lost Dollhouse to fit in the 100th season of American Idol. And yeah, the timing of riding the wave of Holmesian fervor by releasing it soon after the international success of Sherlock is a low shot. But from what I can see, they're trying to go a different route and look at different parts of Holmes canon, and there's no shame in that. There have been so many adaptations over the years. This could either turn out to be one no one talks about or one that people find brilliant! (Which is why I rather find it hard to take your point, JF, about Casablanca. There is only one Casablanca. There's an entire wiki page about the adaptations of Holmes. )

Ultimately, I still think it's too early to judge it. Is it American? Yes. Does this mean it has a higher chance of not being so great? Well, yeah, probably. Will Holmes/Watson become a couple? We don't know. (For the record, one being a girl makes no difference in most poeple's minds. Have you seen the fanfiction out there?) Will this be a complete rip-off of Sherlock? We don't know. WE DON'T KNOW how this series will pan out. I think it's been getting a bad rap so far given that all we know about it are the basics and we haven't seen any episodes.



I actually don't have any attachment whatsoever to this show and expect that I won't really enjoy it enough to watch it a lot. But I think it should be defended until proven unworthy. Must be the American in me.

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going on a journey through my old claims

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*

Good points about Firefily and Dollhouse, Nurr. The general pattern of American television is that if it is any good at all it'll be cancelled in a year. And if it's no good it might be cancelled anyway. I don't think that we're going to be stuck with this thing forever by any means.

With the whole Watson being a woman thing, I don't really feel so strongly about it either way. Would I like them to stay close to the cannon? Yes. Does it seem kind of gimmicky to switch the genders of one the characters? Oh yeah. But at the same time I sort of like that it reminds me of that whole "The doctor is a woman" riddle, and I like to see a strong female character. But, yeah, there might be always the danger of there being sexual tension over everything, and of missing out on the 'bromance' of Holmes and Watson at the center of the stories. Or they might become a couple. Yuck. Or worse, some sort of unrequited love, with Watson pining over Holmes. (That's what happened in 'They Might Be Giants,' but that wasn't the "real" Watson or the "real" Holmes. I'd be up in arms if they ever tried to put that in an actual, cannon story.) To their credit, there was none of that in the preview. In fact, just from looking at that, I liked Watson. And I think there is a way to do it without all the sexual tension that has no place in the Holmes stories, but, again, going back to the low expectations point, I doubt they'll find it.

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Eew, I reread my last post, and I'm sorry guys. I've been having this problem lately where I'm having trouble writing things and not sounding really b****y.



You'll probably be much happier if you stay clear away from these people's judging, then, because some of them have the most painfully delusional interpretations of ... everything, basically. A lot of the deranged Jawnlawk shippers (yes, that's how they spell it sometimes) have this bizarre "everything straight is wrong" attitude, and there's a lot of hate for female!Watson, Irene Adler, and even Mary Morstan because of it.

... These people scare me, in other words.



Ooh, interesting word here--because in the end, isn't changing the time period (and in this case the location) gimmicky? And that, no one has a huge problem with, even though it's a pretty big switch. I wonder if people would be more willing to accept a female Watson if the original Victorian London setting had been left intact, or if they'd be even angrier.

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- married fingon fingolfinion 6/4/13 -
~art credit~

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*

Haha, it's just that I go from seeing the aforementioned deranged fans on other corners of the web, and then when I go to have a rational conversation on AU, some of my pent-up rage bleeds through. The internet is too stressful sometimes, omg

You know, people actually seem to really like Molly, even though she would technically be "ruining" their precious Johnlock. I think it's because they see some themselves in her? Which then makes it even stranger that they'd be against a female Watson.

... I find all this convoluted thinking a bit weird, since Sherlock is essentially all about logic and intelligence. This is why we can't have nice things.

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- married fingon fingolfinion 6/4/13 -
~art credit~