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Do you like/dislike Tom Bombadil?
like 79%  79%  [ 114 ]
dislike 21%  21%  [ 31 ]
Total votes : 145
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PostPosted: October 12th, 2006, 8:25 pm 
Hobbit
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Sorry, I was just trying to explain why I didn't like him. Sorry if anyone got offended :/

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PostPosted: October 13th, 2006, 4:11 pm 
Istari
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Orate m8 its ok, but how can u say u dislike his songs if u skipped through most of them Zamorak Flame? I dont like hardcore Chavs but some of their music is ok/

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PostPosted: October 15th, 2006, 11:45 pm 
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I LOVE TOM BOMBADIL! My friend sent me this think that got me really mad at her:
The Truth about Tom Bombadil
From a rec.arts.books.tolkien posting dated 3 May 1996.
At last, the mystery of Tom Bombadil's identity has been solved.

Ready?

Tom Bombadil and the Witch-king of Angmar are the same person.

1. We never hear of Tom at all during the whole of the First Age. The Nine Rings aren't forged until the Second Age. QED.

2. You never see the two of them together.

3. In the first part of Fellowship of the Ring, the Nazgul are sent to the Shire to look for the wandering Baggins. Interestingly, Tom says to Frodo at the dinner-table: "...I was waiting for you. We heard news of you, and learned that you were wandering... But Tom had an errand there, that he dared not hinder" (Fellowship p.137 hardback, emphasis mine: note the fear Tom has of his master, Sauron!).

4. In Tom's questioning of the Hobbits, JRRT notes that "there was a glint in his eyes when he heard of the Riders." (Fellowship p. 144) I think he was concerned that his double-life might have been noticed. Interestingly, Tom immediately changes the subject of conversation!
Furthermore, the One Ring had no effect on Tom - which seems consistent with Tolkien's observations about how the Nazgul would have handled the same priceless object (Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, #246): "They were... in no way deceived as to the real lordship of the Ring."

5. It's also interesting to note that Tom could see Frodo clearly while Frodo was wearing the Ring (Fellowship p. 144 hardback) - just as the Witch-king could see Frodo clearly while he was wearing the Ring at Weathertop! (Fellowship p. 208 hardback)

6. Perhaps most damning, however, is the incident with the Barrow-wights (Fellowship pp. 151-155), where Tom - with nothing more than a few simple words (p. 154) - commands the Barrow-wight to leave. And it does, without argument. Why would the Wight be so completely under Tom's control? Because in his alternate guise as the Witch-king of Angmar, Tom ordered the Wight to inhabit the barrow in the first place! Turning to Return of the King, Appendix A, p. 321, "evil spirits out of Angmar... entered into the deserted mounds and dwelt there." Obviously the Witch-king was reponsible for sending the wights there; just as obviously, the Witch-king (disguised as Tom) would be capable of ordering them to leave!
(This is related to another passage, which has since been brought to my attention. On Fellowship page 158 hardback, Tom is guiding the Hobbits back towards the Road when he gazes towards the borders of Cardolan. "Tom said that it had once been the boundary of a kingdom, but a very long time ago. He seemed to remember something sad about it, and would not say much." Since Tom, as the Witch-king, was the one who destroyed the kingdom of Cardolan, it's little wonder that he wouldn't say much about his involvement. Perhaps his remembering "something sad" reveals some remorse at being the instrument of Cardolan's destruction...?)

...Yep: I think we have an airtight case here. :)

...It's worth noting that, after the Witch-king was dead, Gandalf said he was "going to have a long talk with Bombadil" (Return of the King, p. 275). Curiously, he never tells anyone about the meeting later... and he's right there at the Grey Havens at the end of the book, undelayed it seems by long conversation. I think we can therefore theorize that Gandalf made it to the Old Forest, but that Tom (once the so-called "Witch-king" had died) was nowhere to be found!

...Of course, all this brings up the curiosity of motive. What would make the Witch-King of Angmar sport such a double identity? I suppose that the Witch-king, once of proud Numenorean ancestry, felt trapped by the guise of evil which Sauron had tricked him into, and in the fullness of time forged this alternate identity for himself so that he could occasionally feel happy, helpful, noble, and more at one with himself and his lineage. The situation is perhaps analagous to a crossdresser who, feeling trapped in a man's body, would occasionally assume the identity of a woman. It therefore makes sense that the Witch-king's other identity would be so peculiarly enigmatic, and perhaps sheds light on JRRT's observation in Letters #144: "And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)."

...Who else would be aware of Tom's double-life, I wonder? Since Tom repeatedly claims to have been around "before the river and the trees", and indeed even claims to be older than the Ents (Fellowship p. 142), surely the eldest of the Elves would know he was lying. Elrond plays along with Tom in public, being kind enough not to reveal his secret, but also seems to know that Tom and the Witch-king are one and the same; hence his refusal to give the Ring to Tom for safekeeping (Fellowship p. 278-9): "Power to defy the Enemy is not in him."

"The ol' Witch-king is a merry fellow,
Dark black his cowl is, and his crown is yellow..."


ISN'T IT SAD???



My reply, was of course, debating the evidence from my brain with the 'evidence' there:

ahem, Anna. Where did you find it? I thought you knew better than that. *sighs* would you like me to explain it to you?
It is clearly impossible for them to be the same person, because
1. The witch-king has been completely taken over by his ring of power, correct? You see him as the witch king in the movie. Now tell me - how could he change into Tom Bombadil?
2. If he really were the witch-king, he would have wanted the one ring. Sauron knew they'd obey him because they wanted more power.
3. Tom can see Frodo because Tom does not let the ring bother him.
4. The thing about Elrond playing along is just plain stupid. Elrond is not a playing-alonger. He would not have given the ring to Tom because the job is Frodo's.
5. Numenoreans are nothing like Tom. Aragorn is a Numenorean. Do you see any hint of Aragorn in Tom? No.
6. If Tolkien had meant for that to be, he would have noted it in the appendix, no?
7. Why would a nazgul control the trees?
8. If Tom had Frodo in his grasp why didn't he take it?
9. The borders of Cardolan makes no sense whatsoever. It is a sad story. Perhaps he had friends there.
10. No, nothing ever says a Nazgul sent the barrow-wights there. It just said 'evil spirits entered....' nothing about so and so commanding them to enter.
11. He had news of Frodo because he is Tom Bombadil, okay? Dared not hinder? Sure. That could mean anything. The Shire. How long did it take the hobbits to get from the Shire to Tom Bombadil's? Huh?

Anna, be reasonable here. Airtight case indeed. Ha! How many things did I get out of this? 11 points against it? They only have 6 points! It's just stupid it to be true


Heh, All those evolution V.S. Creation lectures made my debating so much better.... I mean, come on, Where's the Beef? Show me the facts, not the fiction.

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PostPosted: October 16th, 2006, 1:45 pm 
Istari
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How on earth did you come to that conclusion M8? A bit random that and also how long did it take u to type and reference all that?

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PostPosted: October 16th, 2006, 1:45 pm 
Istari
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How on earth did you come to that conclusion M8? A bit random that and also how long did it take u to type and reference all that?

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "


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PostPosted: October 16th, 2006, 7:33 pm 
Hobbit
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EonwesBestMate wrote:
Orate m8 its ok, but how can u say u dislike his songs if u skipped through most of them Zamorak Flame? I dont like hardcore Chavs but some of their music is ok/


I read about half of them, mostly the beginning and the end ones, and those I didn't like. I don't really think the middle songs would be a whole lot different :/

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PostPosted: October 16th, 2006, 7:47 pm 
Vala
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Lalaithnindil wasn't saying that Tom Bombadil was the Witch King, she was the one proving that he couldn't possibly be the Witch King. And, if I'm not mistaken, which I may be, she probably copied and pasted the whole thing rather than typed it out. However, if she did type it all out, I applaud her patience. I could never do something like that.
And Lalaithmindil: That was crazy! Crazy! How could people think Tom Bombadil was the Witch King? A very off the wall statement, and of course, not true. It's so weird, the things people come up with about LOTR.


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PostPosted: October 17th, 2006, 5:07 pm 
Istari
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Look tinuviels tears, re-read it and it says, in black lettering that Tom Bombadil and the Witch King are the same person. This is tantamount to saying Tom is the witch king and comes up with quotes to support this theory.
ORATE!

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PostPosted: October 19th, 2006, 5:23 am 
Maia
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I just pasted on here what I had written to my friend in reply to her email... And I didn't research at all so most of it is probably wrong. But I love debating, so it was more fun than anything else. So yes, I was proving that Tom and the witch king are NOT the same person.

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PostPosted: October 20th, 2006, 2:02 pm 
Istari
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I may be a bit wierd and sometimess have blond moments as it were but it clearly says in your post that Tom Bombadil and the Witch kng are the same person!!!!
Clear as Crystal!!!

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PostPosted: October 20th, 2006, 10:25 pm 
Vala
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Yes it does, but it is her friend who was saying it, she was the one proving that Tom Bombadil was NOT the Witch King. Savvy? :pirate:


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PostPosted: October 21st, 2006, 11:46 am 
Istari
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I thought it woz her. Soz and who on this good green earth still says the word savvy? Cool word like, but the only person who can truly pull such a word off is Captain Jack sparrow. The previous post by lailathnindel was kinda confusin in how it was worded .
Savvy????

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "


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PostPosted: October 21st, 2006, 11:52 am 
Vala
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Who on this good green earth still says savvy? Why, I on this good grren earth say savvy? Sometimes when I'm feeling a bit pirate-ish, it just slips out. And it's perfectly fine tthat you were confused, we all get confused sometimes and no one's jusging you for it. Are we all clear now? Savvy? (Savvy? battle!)


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PostPosted: October 22nd, 2006, 10:38 am 
Istari
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I see your savvy and raise you a ARGH ME HEARTIES!. ( p.s. not meaning to get of topic like so I think bombadil is super cool cause he is so random it is just funny)

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PostPosted: October 22nd, 2006, 12:51 pm 
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And to that I will say ARGH, SWASH SWASH, BUCKLE BUCKLE! :lol:
I actually really like Tom Bombadil. A lot of people mistake him as being weak, because he sings and he's carefree and he doesn't hack off any Otrc heads, but really, he is very powerful. It's just a different kind of power, and I think that's why people get confused.


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PostPosted: October 22nd, 2006, 1:02 pm 
Istari
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I will take the moral high ground and not carry the savvy battle on. I agree with ur point bout Tom: he has a power that does not destroy, rather preserve, which I feel is the harder of these two things to do lol.

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