Tolkien's Epic novels, like his life, are full of suffering. I have often contemplated why it must be so. Containing so much of it, Tolkien must have some great perspectives on how and why. As you have read these great stories, what insights have you had into what Tolkien is saying about our grief and wounds?

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"If you do not find a way, no one will."

Well, the first thing for me that comes to mind on this topic is "What doesn't kill us makes us stronger." Unfortunately, I'm quite tired and my brain's not quite working today so I can't expand on that much, sorry.

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Great musings on the horror and resulting beauty of suffering Aerlinniel.

Iluvatar warned Melkor that his "original" music would simply be used in the "in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined." Some of the contrasts in the movies are dynamic. I will always remember in the movie Aliens what a powerful effect the contrast of an innocent little girl next to villianous monsters had on me. Darkness only makes the light more beautiful.

Tolkien's story here is a powerful statement of how evil, although not desired by Iluvatar, is really bound up within the whole of His unfolding story. I think the lesson for us is to be content with what happens to us, because we are playing our part in God's epic story. God happens to be in control of his universe and nothing can happen, including the parts you and I play, that doesn't ultimately contribute to His glory,which is "wonderful".

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"If you do not find a way, no one will."

Aerlinniel, that's a great point! (I need to re-read the Sil.) I think that Tolkien wanted to create a world which was realistic and so he included grief, real grief. And yet the grief is not overwhelming, except for a few characters, like Denethor. Characters like Eowyn and Faramir, on the other hand, withstand their grief and allow it to deepen themselves.

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I think that that shows how small, and yet how great, emotion's rule over man is. They don't rule anyone unless they are permitted, yet once they are permitted, they end up controling quite a bit.

Yes, people all feel emotions, but the ability to make wise and clear decisions in spite of emotions is what sets Faramir and Aragorn and Gandalf apart from those like Denethor. All of the above felt strong emotions at parts in the story (especially with the latter two at the Battle of the Morannon, or more specifically with the Mouth of Sauron), yet only Denethor was controlled by his emotions, giving in to despair.

And there's a quote from LotR which ties in to how Morgoth's discord merely makes Eru's glory greater--

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater." --Haldir, in The Fellowship of the Ring chapter 18 "Lothlórien".

Indeed, Morgoth's vanity and enmity led only towards Eru's greater glory. The darker the night, the brighter the candle shines.

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Well, I actually only remembered the latter part of the quote, but I took the time to go look up the exact one. So I don't remember everything perfectly, much to my regret.

Tolkien's stories all demonstrate how we can let our emotions rule our lives, while showing that we don't have to. There's always a choice.

And I agree, it's also evident in RL.

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I hear what you are saying Aerandir. We don’t have to be a slave—we can be free. I don’t know whether you saw V for Vendetta but it brings up this issue of suffering—that through suffering, even torture, our metal is tested and our character perfected. That through suffering we are set free from our fears, our past and our emotions—free to see what is REALLY important in life.

Redemption through suffering? Tortured to save? That seems to be the way of life and certainly what we see in LotR although the effect is not always redemptive.

But seriously, how much do we learn when things go smoothly? It is only at our desperate end that we find our way. It is only in realizing our weakness that we find our strength.

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"If you do not find a way, no one will."

It brings to mind Emily Dickinson's poem--

Success is counted sweetest
By those who ne’er succeed.
To comprehend a nectar
Requires sorest need.

Not one of all the purple host
Who took the flag to-day
Can tell the definition,
So clear, of victory,

As he, defeated, dying,
On whose forbidden ear
The distant strains of triumph
Break, agonized and clear.

There is no rainbow without first the rain.

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Thanks for sharing that. I concur with Aerlinniel!

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"If you do not find a way, no one will."

For me, suffering is both.
When it first starts out, it's my foe, and I hate it. But then as it goes on... I start to view it not as suffering, but as a sort of training, or strengthening for something... then it becomes my friend, even though it's hard sometimes.

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I think it is easy sometimes to think that life is unfair with all the suffering that people go through. Whether it's physical or emotional suffering--many things come at us in life. But thinking this way can lead to cynicism and people can easily become cold-hearted.

Maybe if we saw suffering as a crucible, a way to temper us into more enduring people--it would make us more thankful in life.

Last month, I was sick for a very long time--as in many weeks--and it was sometimes too much effort to complain about my suffering! It was much more uplifting to be thankful for the health that I do enjoy now and the blessings in my life.

Suffering may last a long or short time, but the blessings and joy will always outlast it.

So true! Yes, it seems to be in human nature to complain, but when we stop and think about what's going well in our life, what in the world are we upset about?

The blessings of suffering definitely outweigh the pain itself.

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Yeah! It really is! You really should see V for Vendetta if only to see what it says about suffering. It is one of the more powerful movies of late. (Hugo Weaving delivers a spectacular performance!) I had some quotes all pasted in here from the movie but they were spoilers so.....see it!

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"If you do not find a way, no one will."

I believe suffering makes a person stronger. That's what happened to Frodo.

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Faith isn't the ability to believe long and far into the misty future.
It's simply taking God at His Word and taking the next step Joni Erickson Tada

I agree with everyone, in that suffering strengthens a person and their character. I also believe that all suffering has a purpose; suffering makes one appreciate the joys in their life. I also think, from my point of view, that suffering makes one long for the perfection, beauty, and complete peace of the next world.

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^That's a good view of suffering.

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Faith isn't the ability to believe long and far into the misty future.
It's simply taking God at His Word and taking the next step Joni Erickson Tada