^I agree with pretty much everything said, except for two things. One, I'm obviously a Martha-hater, for reasons that I can't even explain (which is funny, I don't think anyone can say what actually rubs them the wrong way about her). also, not to split hairs here, but the Ninth Doctor couldn't stand Mickey at first, true enough, but he really did like him eventually. I mean, he actually invited Mickey to go with him before Rose did. I think that if Mickey had traveled with Rose and the Ninth Doctor as opposed to the Tenth, I might have liked him better as a companion, because the Ninth was less...I don't know, preening (not really the right word, but close enough) as Tenth. I think that it would have been more like when Adam traveled with the Ninth and Rose; Ninth instructing Rose and then letting her go off and do her own thing, as opposed to Tenth, who pretty much ignored Mickey the whole time he was there. And I think Mickey would have been better than the tin dog if it had been the other way around.

Hah, this does have a tie back to Torchwood, I promise. I think that Mickey being able to do his own thing (more than trailing around like he did with Tenth) will make him a much more likable character to those of us who weren't such a big fan of Mickey when he was a companion. Plus, he's not such a little girl anymore.

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Be with me always - take any form - drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!

Hey, to each their own, as the saying goes . I'd say one reason may be she fell for the Doctor as soon as she met him, but in a way, that could also be said about Rose, so it doesn't quite explain certain people's dislike of Martha, but love of Rose .

He did ? I must've missed that somehow (I only started watching Doctor Who faithfully in the middle of season one, so I'm not quite up on all the details). About the Tenth- Hehe, I'd say that's a pretty good description, ! I mean, how many times did he pointedly say how much of a genius he was? Still, while some would find that hugely annoying, it made me like him even more .
Hmmm..., maybe so .

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that both he and Martha are going to join Torchwood . I agree with you that those who didn't like Mickey before may see him in a new light for the reason you said . As someone on here, I think, said, it will also be interesting because the time they were together as the Doctor's companions, Jack and Mickey just did not get along, so it's a given that the two of them will be locking horns pretty regularly when they start working together in Torchwood, especially since Jack is no longer an equal, but THE BOSS. About Mickey's "growing up"- So I've heard . I've not seen the season four finale of Doctor Who (none of season four, actually ), but spoilerhound that I am, I read the posts on here about the episodes anyway , so I know about him kissing his gun. Still, while that was the clincher for, it seems, a lot of people realizing that he'd changed dramatically since seasons one and two, for me, his transformation, if you will, started when he decided to stay behind in the parallel earth rather than continue traveling with Rose and the Doctor.

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The end is where we start from.
– Captain Jack Harkness

^
I pretty much agree with everything you said. Most of the Martha hate spawns from her infatuation with the Doctor. Well...Rose was infatuated too, so much so she left her family and boyfriend without so much as a word to go off galavanting with a complete stranger. But hey, that's okay because it's Rose right? One rule for her, another for everyone else.

but...back to Torchwood.

Martha haters can rejoice.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sh ... 467855.ece

take the article with a hefty dose of salt, The Sun isn't the most reputable or classy newspaper over here.

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Well, I don't think that Rose intentionally left without a word. The DOctor ment to take her back only a couple hours after she had left, but missed by about a year. True, its always best to tell someone before you go for a reckless joyride with a stranger who claims he has a time machine, but it wasn't entirely in her control.

Law and Order: London. That makes me laugh. I never thought I would hear that. I'm going to have to watch it now. But Alleluia! Thank you Peonix for showing us that! I hope the Sun is right. Now all that needs to happen to make it wonderful is Mickey needs to not be on the show. T

Let me shed a little bit of light on the Rose v. Martha thing here, being a part of some of the sweeping generalizations that were just made.

Rose was the first companion most saw (for those who haven't watched previous seasons), and of course, we all loved the Doctor/Rose infatuation. Now, Martha was brought in, when the wounds were still fresh from Doomsday and the heartbreaking seperation of the Doctor/Rose. And Martha just falls head over heels for this guy, and completely swans over him (which by the way, Rose did not do. She wasn't all...I don't know, "oh, I love you, please notice me!" In fact, Rose had a boyfriend, and she flirted with other guys, she was never at a point where she was just fawning all over him.) Don't say that Martha and Rose were the same, because they weren't anything like each other.

I don't speak for all of us. That's just sort of how I feel about it, so...
(and to make an attempt to wrangle this back to Torchwood, I'd love to see Rose on Torchwood. Because she's sort of...I don't know...powderpuffy? I'd love to see how much her character would have to change on Torchwood. We've already seen that Martha is the exact same.)



Oh, and as much as I would like to believe that Martha isn't going to be in Torchwood, I can't really buy that article. For one thing, they never even said her last name. Even when they introduced her, they were like "Freema, 29," like she only had one name. I know that doesn't have anything to do with facts, but in my opinion, that's just poor journalism, so I don't know how much of that article I can believe.

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Be with me always - take any form - drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!

That's why I said take it with a hefty does of salt. I know what this so-called newspaper is like for glossing over facts and blatant lies. Until there's official confirmation from the BBC, no rejoicing from the Martha haters just yet

I'm not going to reply to the DW part of the post as it really doesn't have anything to do with Torchwood. But I'm more than happy to continue it over at the DW Club.

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Yeh, exactly. I'll keep my confetti at hand, however.

And that's why I tied in the Torchwood thing at the end. With all this bringing DW characters over to Torchwood, it's all a grey area what counts as DW and what counts as Torchwood now.

I mean, technically, since Martha is going to be a part of Torchwood...

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Be with me always - take any form - drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!

I get what you mean.
But I was thinking of the whole Martha v Rose debate that might spill over into here. I'm definetly up for a convo/debate/ect over in the other Club.

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Phoenix- ^Okay, I'll join you guys over there .

Alexis

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The end is where we start from.
– Captain Jack Harkness

I was reading an artical in the paper yesterday, and it said that BBC America won't be airing Torchwood until next spring! That's insane! I don't think it will come to Britain much sooner, because last season our episodes were only a week or two apart. I'm a bit peeved at the moment.

They're only just starting filming in a few weeks, so it'll be a while, yeah. I thought I saw March 2009 somewhere... not sure though.

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- married fingon fingolfinion 6/4/13 -
~art credit~

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Illuminate the way to my heart,
It's twisting on a thread
+ COME RAISE THE DEAD +

^Your Ianto banner sort of owns my soul, Lothy.

And I cannot stand waiting for Torchwood so long, only to have five episodes. That's messed up in so many ways.

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Be with me always - take any form - drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!

Dunno if anyone's heard this yet. But John Barrowman is heavily rumoured to be in talks with Marvel to play Captain America in the upcoming movie.

http://www.superherohype.com/news/topnews.php?id=7531

There was another link with him confirming he was in talks. But I can't seem to find it.

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I really was never a fan of Captain America, but if it was John Barrowman, I would worship it. That's completely amazing.

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Be with me always - take any form - drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!

Nothing's really official and the movie isn't due till 2011 so it won't interfere with current Torchwood plans. But after this season...who knows.
I personally hope he does take the role. He totally deserves it, he's a great actor and I think he'll just own the role of Steve Rogers and his alter ego.

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